Hordes cannot form the Mughals?

[Taterthomp2]

I'm not Novacat and am not at the moment arguing against Novacat. I have in the past, but it seems a bit silly for you to look for me to address his posts here since he isn't arguing with me.

i wasn't attempting to argue with you when i stated something that was clearly something you could not agree with, that being that this reform is realistic.

but you don't bother to point out that someone who happens to agree with you uses the exact thing you challenge me to do, and i admit isn't doingable, ... Lol. nevermind that. Oh well.

What i find silly is that it is so hard to be understood for what I mean here, and instead people jump to things i dont even meant, and then when i try to explain how i meant, i get accused of ...what ... i don't even know what to call it

hitting redo button? restarting? what is it that i supposedly do.

i get misunderstood, try to make it where i am interpreted correctly, and get insulted for it.

i don't know... it makes it a tiresome place to be in here sometimes...

remember, that i was not disagreeing with what you said, but it was you who disagreed with what i said, when my statement was tiny, and totally not argumentative, in that all i said "and realistic too" and you immediately both join in and act like i am baiting you to argue something when for one thing...
the last thing i want to do is 'argue' about what i mean to people over the internet when they refuse to try and understand because they perceive me as trying to change what i meant to favor not being wrong... when id rather be understood and wrong than WRONGLY UNDERSTOOD

... so frustrating.... so very frustrating...

thats why i put that shatner picture... to get my point across trying to make it english legible and still actually COMMUNICATE what i want it to... i feel have to break it up or else, people will not understand my grammar errors and think i am saying more than one thing, when i am saying one thing, or the reverse is true...

:/

Did they. Doesn't seem like they did. But props if they did.

If only more people would ignore long-winded, off-topic nonsense.*



*Yes, semantic arguments and historical discussions fall into this category. Maybe they start with a semi-valid point, but they ALWAYS devolve.

Only happens to me when i try to explain something SUPER complicated... like... what i meant and how i meant it. to someone determined to be condescending to me :|

notice how my initial post is about 6 words?..

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What i find silly is that it is so hard to be understood for what I mean here, and instead people jump to things i dont even meant, and then when i try to explain how i meant, i get accused of ...what ... i don't even know what to call it

I understand what you're saying, it just isn't useful to my argumentative position right now to also debate against Novacat, so I'm not doing it.

Please do not take it personally, because it absolutely is not. If anything, it's just a topic that's come up one too many times in part because PI keeps hammering them, so if I seem a bit touchy it's frustration over bad design being pushed even worse as a trend. As I said earlier, what I quoted is common and something that's already been addressed in detail multiple times recently, which is why it got that kind of response.

 

[oblio-]

Taterthomp, I recommend you read up on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_consciousness_(narrative_mode)
And avoid it while writing forum posts.

Hints:
1. Focus on 1-2-3 topics of conversation at most. Preferably 1.
2. Avoid using "..." a lot.
3. Less meta-discussions (discussions about discussions).

now... if you'll excuse me...

 

[Taterthomp2]

Taterthomp, I recommend you read up on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_consciousness_(narrative_mode)
And avoid it while writing forum posts.

Hints:
1. Focus on 1-2-3 topics of conversation at most. Preferably 1.
2. Avoid using "..." a lot.
3. Less meta-discussions (discussions about discussions).

now... if you'll excuse me...

i can only remark that i do not think in that way of 'streamed river' lol i pause a lot in my brain to translate

 

[toroltao]

I understand what you're saying, it just isn't useful to my argumentative position right now to also debate against Novacat, so I'm not doing it.

Please do not take it personally, because it absolutely is not. If anything, it's just a topic that's come up one too many times in part because PI keeps hammering them, so if I seem a bit touchy it's frustration over bad design being pushed even worse as a trend. As I said earlier, what I quoted is common and something that's already been addressed in detail multiple times recently, which is why it got that kind of response.

My question is why PI insists on nerfing ROTW when it is already weak to begin with. Is there some sort of hidden logic I'm not seeing here?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My question is why PI insists on nerfing ROTW when it is already weak to begin with. Is there some sort of hidden logic I'm not seeing here?

If they have hidden logic in doing so, they are hiding it very effectively.

 

[Tufto]

My question is why PI insists on nerfing ROTW when it is already weak to begin with. Is there some sort of hidden logic I'm not seeing here?

It's Stage One. Stage Two involves nerfing all of Europe apart from Sweden.

Stage Three is when Sweden gets the super-buff. And then even France will cower in fear at the unstoppable might of Gustavus Adolphus' hordes.

 

[toroltao]

It's Stage One. Stage Two involves nerfing all of Europe apart from Sweden.

Stage Three is when Sweden gets the super-buff. And then even France will cower in fear at the unstoppable might of Gustavus Adolphus' hordes.

:rofl:

And EU4 becomes CK2.

 

[Johnstathan]

I don't think hordes should be able to form the Mughals because they didn't historically.

I also don't think that the Timurids should be a horde in 1444, because they weren't really historically.

If the Timurids are going to be classified as a horde, however, than I think they should be allowed to form the Mughals without reforming the government. Babur never really controlled the entirety of the Timurids at one point, and he essentially fled Persia to India. His successors were really the government reformers.

I just recently started a Timurid > Mughal campaign and I'm sitting around 1505 right now. The first while is really slow going. Not a ton of rebel problems, but not a ton to do either while you conserve your precious, precious admin points.

 

[Taterthomp2]

that revolution target dot so unsightly. it is like (map-wise) 300 miles below where it should be to be a period! like they hit enter and tab to add that dot lol so far away. i thought surely they fix this, or it was result of the Aland but i just saw it on france (go and figure ) and it is way out there in like wurtenburg lol was it like that before?

'Rev France'
--->.

 

[Johnstathan]

that revolution target dot so unsightly. it is like (map-wise) 300 miles below where it should be to be a period! like they hit enter and tab to add that dot lol so far away. i thought surely they fix this, or it was result of the Aland but i just saw it on france (go and figure ) and it is way out there in like wurtenburg lol was it like that before?

'Rev France'
.

Sorry? I don't understand? What does the Revolution target dot have to do with the topic?

 

[RobRoy3]

My question is why PI insists on nerfing ROTW when it is already weak to begin with. Is there some sort of hidden logic I'm not seeing here?

Best theory I've seen is that they do it in the interests of "game balance". Specifically, Russia, who still underperforms in the west, needs easy conquests in the east to compensate, or they'll be too weak to fill their historical role. Easier than trying to balance both areas in a manner that approaches historical realities.

Of course, that still doesn't explain why the nerfs that are specifically targeted at human players. But they have a long history of targeting certain playstyles that offend them.

I don't think hordes should be able to form the Mughals because they didn't historically.

A nation that the game defines as a "Horde" did.

 

[toroltao]

A nation that the game defines as a "Horde" did.

Hence why Timurids shouldn't be a Horde.

 

[Johnstathan]

A nation that the game defines as a "Horde" did.

Yes, but Babur was hardly leading a "Horde" by the time of Panipat.

 

[Tacticus101]

A nation that the game defines as a "Horde" did.

To be fair, it only did so after it collapsed and was mostly conquered. Maybe they should represent that in the game?

 

[ekorovin]

Yes, but Babur was hardly leading a "Horde" by the time of Panipat.

Even Timur hardly led a horde anytime in his career.

 

[Johnstathan]

Even Timur hardly led a horde anytime in his career.

I think it's fair to say that his initial conquests were in the "horde" style of his predecessors. Once Timur established himself and his successors did the same, there was plenty of infighting and conquest, but I very much doubt anyone could argue his empire was still a horde at that point.

 

[fridabina]

Imagine if they made a system where the hordes were just normal Monarchies (because really, they were not that different from other forms of monarchies.) who ruled over provinces with some kind of modifier that simulates sedentary/nomad population ratio. (Something similar to autonomy.)
Provinces with high nomad population would exchange tax for manpower/forcelimit or something similar.
Wrong culture provicnes with high nomad population would also suffer from autonomy issues.

 

[RobRoy3]

To be fair, it only did so after it collapsed and was mostly conquered. Maybe they should represent that in the game?

They used to model "Horde" collapses better. Not great, mind, but better. Babur is probably best represented as a CK2 "adventurer", just can't work well with the EU4 mechanics. Could use a series of DHEs, like some mods.

 

[Tacticus101]

A nation that the game defines as a "Horde" did.

Actually, on checking this (going through that period of the game year by year) it turns out that when Babur is leading the Timurids, they have reformed and are Muslim tech