Hoplite's spears: 1hd or 2hd?

[unmerged(2833)]

A question just appeared in my mind. On teh pictures, hoplite shields seem to be strapped on, apparently allowing to grip the spear using two hands.

Question is, did they use two hands? And why, or why not? Any reasons?

 

[stnylan]

Originally posted by DarthMaur
A question just appeared in my mind. On teh pictures, hoplite shields seem to be strapped on, apparently allowing to grip the spear using two hands.

Question is, did they use two hands? And why, or why not? Any reasons?

Depends on time and place I think - given the changing role of the hoplite and of warfare in Greece.

But as to why - the simplest answer is probably because of the need to control that damned spear - especially as they lengthened into the Macedonian phalanx/pike situation.

OK - it's something of a guess, but I think it is a reasonable one.

 

[Vandelay]

The Archaic and Classical hoplite used a one handed spear aboput 2m long (IIRC called "dory" in Greek) and if that broke a short sword. They are named by their heavy shield - the hoplon.

The Hellenistic phalangite, from Phillip II onwards, used a two handed pike, the sarissa, of varying length c. 5.5m. I read that some of thes pikes could be halfed (by using a bronze sheath to keep what was actually two half-pikes together). The phalangites shield and equipment was lighter than that of the hoplite.

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

[unmerged(3006)]

Originally posted by Vandelay

The Hellenistic phalangite, from Phillip II onwards, used a two handed pike, the sarissa, of varying length c. 5.5m. I read that some of thes pikes could be halfed (by using a bronze sheath to keep what was actually two half-pikes together). The phalangites shield and equipment was lighter than that of the hoplite.

Cheers,
Vandelay

There's an ongoing argument about the bronze sheaths that have been found. I think it's more plausible to assume that they were collars that fit just beneath the weapon's head and provided some resilience against sword or axe blows. I honestly don't understand how a pike with a two-part shaft would actually be structurally sound in combat.

 

[Vandelay]

The bronze sheaths are just something I read - I guess you could get some reenactment group to test if they´re functional.

Do any of the ancient authors mention halving a sarissa? It would sure have been practical during marches and swum river crossings. A half- pike would have been more practical when storming a fortification or fighting from the deck of a galley as well I suppose, but maybe the phalngites were issued regular spears for those duties?

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

[unmerged(3006)]

Originally posted by Vandelay

Do any of the ancient authors mention halving a sarissa? It would sure have been practical during marches and swum river crossings. A half- pike would have been more practical when storming a fortification or fighting from the deck of a galley as well I suppose, but maybe the phalngites were issued regular spears for those duties?

Cheers,
Vandelay

To the best of my knowledge, there's no mention in any literary source of two-part sarissai. I think the idea that they could be broken down into two pieces originates solely in the archaeological discovery of those bronze sheaths and speculations over what they were for.

I agree that sarissai probably weren't that practical for storming fortifications. My sense, though, is that those unfortunates who went up the scaling ladders probably used swords. Off the top of my head, the only actual evidence that I can cite for this is the story of Alexander's attack on the Mallian capital in India. In this particular battle, Alexander apparently went up one of the scaling ladders himself, got involved in some close-order sword work at the top of the ladder, then took a nasty arrow wound.

I guess the only other thing worth mentioning is that Alexander's army also included a bunch of light infantry that seem to have played pivotal roles in his sieges (eg the Agrianes and various bow/javelin troops).

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by Cam
I honestly don't understand how a pike with a two-part shaft would actually be structurally sound in combat.

Neither do I, unless they weren't for combat but for scaring

The 'protection against cutting of the head of the pike' idea sounds like the most likely.

No spear (I can imagine) would be useful during storming, and most spears would be slightly worse off when fighting on a ship.
Short blades are likely best during both occasions. Methinks.