Hope to have a psionic exclusive DLC.

[如月莲太]

At present,in the three Ascension Path, Synthetic is the strongest and Psionic is the weakest. I hope the Psionic can be strengthened.
In order to enhance the interest, we can try to add another medium-term crisis besides the Great Khan - Jihad
At the beginning, there was two federation composed of spiritualist countries, and they believe in different religions. For example, one of federation believes in the son of God and the another federation believes in the prophet. They regard each other as pagans. After the game reaches the medium-term , they get the war excuse of "Jihad" and fight for the only true God!
At the same time, they can also wage war against ordinary countries, force them to change their faith, join the church, and join the federation.
Players can choose this new origin at the beginning, become the presidency of a religious Federation, the leader is called the pope or supreme bishop, and automatically generate the corresponding pagan Federation.This will be a super war that will affect the whole galaxy.Of course, players can also choose to watch the war, if you have enough strength not to be invaded.
Spiritualist countries will have several new exclusive civics, you can replace the envoy with a missionary, send them to other countries, spread religion and change their ethics through espionage, let them believe in the true God. The new civics will also unlock new buildings, such as replace the planetary administration with a church, it can then be upgraded to a cathedral. And replace the precinct houses with the inquisition. Jobs are also replaced accordingly, for example, replacing metallurgists with alchemists, replace researchers with Erudites.
In addition, spiritualist countries can also build new Megastructure - Mega-altar, but if it is occupied in war, the owner will get a debuff because of humiliation.
In order to ensure their safety through the early stage, there will be a psionic entity over their capital at the beginning, which will become stronger as the number of believers increases. In the middle and later stages of the game, spiritualist countries will be able to summon more psionic entities.
It would be great if there were a new story to illustrate their relationship with Holy Guardians and Zarqlan.

PS: There are too many alloys, unity and zro in the later stage of the game, and resources should be fully utilized.
The civilization in the stellaris was equivalent to Kardashev civilization level 2 when Dyson sphere was built. It can collect the energy of the whole star system, but it's far from level 3.
Why not build a super Megastructure the size of the Milky way?It can increase the interest of the game and let players spend the boring later stage of the game.
For example, We can build a CircumGalaxy particle accelerator, which will be visible in the Galactic view rather than the star system view, requires an unimaginable amount of resources, which requires Galaxy regulators to lead all civilizations to build together, but this requires a motion to be passed in Galaxy community first. Construction can be divided into many sections because the total amount of resources it requires far exceeds the player's inventory capacity.
We will use it to uncover the ultimate truth of the universe, just like Vultaum.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

What are you trying to say here? A specific scenario with those federations doesn't fit at all with the current design of the game.

There will be no DLC that requires previous DLC in order to work. They stated that much.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Whilst Psionic ascension is theoretically the "weakest" of the three it still isn't actually weak. You get a good amount of pop productivity bonus, exclusive techs that are better than anyone else's, a decent leader and ruler trait, and it's very very easy to set up because you don't have to do any special projects. You click the button and immediately get the pop benefits.

The issue is that it's tied to spiritualist and that has two consequences.

1. Robots are too good because they mean you double your pop production rate in a game where pops are all powerful and spiritualists are the only ones that don't like robots.
2. Spiritualists' hat is better unity and unity runs out of ways to be useful in the late game (which IIRC the next patch seeks to address by tying it to whatever replaces sprawl, which may mean that spiritualists can maintain bigness more easily if they keep the "better unity" hat).

Robots can be altered by changing what Robots, Droids, and non-free Synths do. Make them into decisions which change a district's jobs but do not create new pops. eg. once you take the planetary decision "Robotic Mining" you change all miner jobs to "robot controller" jobs which have additional upkeep to represent the robot and have a strong output bonus, and changes the district build cost to reflect the cost of district plus robot. This doesn't add pops, it is just more efficient than any organic pop that isn't a very strong slave being worked to death.

Then if you take the decision to free all your synths *then* you get a lump sum of pops which is determined by the number of jobs you have roboticised throughout your empire.

Immediately robots are still very good but are balanced against empires that can't double grow their population.

 

[Empire of Terra Nova]

would be great if every ascension path get its dlc, providing lots of related content

psi is obviously the coolest with already lots of shroud related content, robots are also nice with quite some stuff, though bio definitely need some love, just as the "fourth" path: void constructions (and mega stuff)

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

just as the "fourth" path: void constructions (and mega stuff)

I am curious why do people see megastructures as another ascension path?

I don't understand this reasoning because all ascension paths are about changing your species in fundamental ways. I can see why such a fundamental endeavor is restricted to one of the three paths.

Why should the construction of megastructures be the forth path though?

It's on another level (Empire vs Pop level) and I don't see a reason why this should exclude you from also modifying your population. The only similarity is that it's also has two associated ascension perks.

 

[MathyM]

I am curious why do people see megastructures as another ascension path?

I don't understand this reasoning because all ascension paths are about changing your species in fundamental ways. I can see why such a fundamental endeavor is restricted to one of the three paths.

Why should the construction of megastructures be the forth path though?

It's on another level (Empire vs Pop level) and I don't see a reason why this should exclude you from also modifying your population. The only similarity is that it's also has two associated ascension perks.

I don't see it either, since it's not a mutually-exclusive path. It's an ascension perk, not path. Just like Technological Ascendency.


I don't think the Psionic buff should be a DLC, just a Custodian improvement: rework The Shroud, make rolling the Zroni less important, improve job production to bring it closer to synth. Maybe also buff the precognition computers? I end up running Sapient every time, because weapons range is too important.

 

[InvisibleBison]

Spiritualism =/= Religion =/= Psionics.

 

[mial42]

IMO buffing psi-ascension should be a Custodians thing, since it's already part of a DLC. It doesn't actually need a huge buff IMO; just better shroud odds (green should ~always succeed, yellow should be where green is now, and red should be where yellow is now) and maybe more/better shroud techs (the jump drive and shields are excellent, but the precog computer is worse than the sapient one and could use a buff) would be enough.

The path that really needs gameplay (as opposed to numbers tweaks) improvement is bio-ascension. With the clone vats, it's plenty strong, but it's just such a pain. IMO, the ability to convert one species to another would be awesome from a micro (and species-screen lag) perspective alone. The sheer annoyance of having to individually manage dozens of species templates is what stops me from taking it most games, and given that I can manipulate traits at will there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to apply templates from one species to another species. Likewise, the ability to automatically assimilate pops from some templates into others would be awesome, since having to do the same gene modding project to convert a species six times because one new unconverted pop grew somewhere or migrated from another empire is extremely annoying. Toss in some more specialized "advanced" traits (advanced versions of the resource traits in particular, and maybe some +alloy/CG/strategic traits) to make specializing different species or templates for different jobs worth it rather than just making one generically good template would also be nice, although less important.

 

[Me_]

What are you trying to say here? A specific scenario with those federations doesn't fit at all with the current design of the game.

There will be no DLC that requires previous DLC in order to work. They stated that much.

Without getting into the core discussion, it is not uncommon for Paradox to have more than one DLC that unlock the same feature (EU4 has a few cases of this, Stellaris has one that I remember - the Curator enclave), so it would technically be possible to have a DLC that has stuff for psionics and unlocks Psionic Ascension, without unlocking the other ones.

 

[Empire of Terra Nova]

I am curious why do people see megastructures as another ascension path?

I don't understand this reasoning because all ascension paths are about changing your species in fundamental ways. I can see why such a fundamental endeavor is restricted to one of the three paths.

Why should the construction of megastructures be the forth path though?

It's on another level (Empire vs Pop level) and I don't see a reason why this should exclude you from also modifying your population. The only similarity is that it's also has two associated ascension perks.

megastructures are changing the gameplay in a very substantial way, allowing instant travel to any point within the empire, large scale exploitation of resources, strategic relocation of the populace of the whole empire to well fortified clusters etc.

basically, they are almost like the synth ascension path with the only difference that the efficiency boni are spread into the void

besides that, i don't really see empire vs pop as a dichotomy

and if we look at scifi we regularily encounter ancient species that focused on building intergalactic megastructures such as alterans in stargate or xindi and borg in star trek, we've even got a counterpart in the fantasy world: the dwarves who focus building machines and huge subterranean stuff

 

[Ryika]

megastructures are changing the gameplay in a very substantial way, allowing instant travel to any point within the empire, large scale exploitation of resources, strategic relocation of the populace of the whole empire to well fortified clusters etc.

basically, they are almost like the synth ascension path with the only difference that the efficiency boni are spread into the void

besides that, i don't really see empire vs pop as a dichotomy

and if we look at scifi we regularily encounter ancient species that focused on building intergalactic megastructures such as alterans in stargate or xindi and borg in star trek, we've even got a counterpart in the fantasy world: the dwarves who focus building machines and huge subterranean stuff

The Ascension Paths are all three themed around changing your biological form in some way though. Megastructures don't fit that idea at all. Plus, you don't need any of the perks to build most of the structures except the three unlocked by the Galactic Wonders Perk, they just make you better at constructing (or using, in the case of Voidborne) them.

The two Megastructure-related Ascension Perks are certainly more thematic than most of the other perks, but I don't think it's all that reasonable to put them into the same category as the three Ascension Paths. They're clearly something different.

 

[MathyM]

megastructures are changing the gameplay in a very substantial way, allowing instant travel to any point within the empire, large scale exploitation of resources, strategic relocation of the populace of the whole empire to well fortified clusters etc.

basically, they are almost like the synth ascension path with the only difference that the efficiency boni are spread into the void

besides that, i don't really see empire vs pop as a dichotomy

and if we look at scifi we regularily encounter ancient species that focused on building intergalactic megastructures such as alterans in stargate or xindi and borg in star trek, we've even got a counterpart in the fantasy world: the dwarves who focus building machines and huge subterranean stuff

Yes, but not of that has to do with a path. Ascension paths are the 3 mutually exclusive paths (as in, two perks that must be taken in sequence).

Megastructures have no set order, and you can pick them alongside any path.

 

[Empire of Terra Nova]

The Ascension Paths are all three themed around changing your biological form in some way though. Megastructures don't fit that idea at all. Plus, you don't need any of the perks to build most of the structures except the three unlocked by the Galactic Wonders Perk, they just make you better at constructing (or using, in the case of Voidborne) them.

The two Megastructure-related Ascension Perks are certainly more thematic than most of the other perks, but I don't think it's all that reasonable to put them into the same category as the three Ascension Paths. They're clearly something different.

well, it is a forth ascension path for me, and when playing void dwellers and having rolled cybrex my first 4-5 ascension perks are pretty much determined

it's not just about the exclusiveness of the perks but also about the time when to
pick them, if you pick one of the other 3 ascension paths you'll be too late with constructions in the void

and it's quite fun seeing how 700K citadels are crushing whole fleets late-game

 

[Dagda]

Rather have a sequel with an upgraded engine for performance sake. These weak little DLC species packs is just kicking the can down the street. Hard to get a excited about the Aquatic thing, when there are better mods with superior species flavor and infinitely more content available.

 

[如月莲太]

I don't see it either, since it's not a mutually-exclusive path. It's an ascension perk, not path. Just like Technological Ascendency.


I don't think the Psionic buff should be a DLC, just a Custodian improvement: rework The Shroud, make rolling the Zroni less important, improve job production to bring it closer to synth. Maybe also buff the precognition computers? I end up running Sapient every time, because weapons range is too important.

I'm not sure whether psionics should be a DLC or a free update. After all, it is also included in Utopian DLC.
But if it has new Origins, Civics, technologies, Tradition, traits, buildings, Jobs, Crisis, events, Archaeological sites, Relics, story packs, Megastructure and BGM, I think I may consider buying it.

 

[Empire of Terra Nova]

Rather have a sequel with an upgraded engine for performance sake. These weak little DLC species packs is just kicking the can down the street. Hard to get a excited about the Aquatic thing, when there are better mods with superior species flavor and infinitely more content available.

seeing how bloated eu4 got i actually have to agree on this one

though stellaris' devs have proven quite capable of reworking/patching essential parts of the game and improving its performance, so the product cycle of stellaris hasn't come to an end yet

 

[methegrate]

I don't see it either, since it's not a mutually-exclusive path. It's an ascension perk, not path. Just like Technological Ascendency.


I don't think the Psionic buff should be a DLC, just a Custodian improvement: rework The Shroud, make rolling the Zroni less important, improve job production to bring it closer to synth. Maybe also buff the precognition computers? I end up running Sapient every time, because weapons range is too important.

I definitely see it.

Megaconstruction isn't a formal ascension path, sure, since it doesn't shut off access to any of the other three. I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. To me it absolutely feels like an informal one though.

You need to use several of your ascension perks to fully take advantage of mega-construction. (Anywhere from three to five depending on if we include arcologies and colossi.) If we just say Master Builders, Voidborne and Galactic Wonders, though, that's as many picks as taking one of the formal ascension paths.

While it's certainly not impossible for you to take both all of the construction perks and a full ascension path, when you include technology prerequisites and the ascension perk tiers it's difficult. Unless you really plan in advance, by the time you start picking the ascension perks that are gated behind tiers or technology you'll have picked a few of the early perks already. That makes it unlikely you'll have the space to pick both a full ascension path and all of the construction perks. (Again, not impossible, but it probably means leaving several AP slots open in the early game until you tech up quite a bit.)

Plus, thematically there are several other ascension perks that work together to create narratively and mechanically good informal ascension path around void construction. You can throw in picks like Eternal Vigilance and Grasp the Void to really build out a society organized around conquering space.

And, personally, I like the megaconstruction narrative just as much as any of the other ascension paths. I like the story of an empire that chooses to grow through building and exploration. If I'm playing as The Federation, I can't see them becoming a civilization of cyborgs, genetic purifiers, or psionic elites. I can see them, though, growing into a race of explorers who create galactic wonders and draw strength from their ingenuity.

Construction definitely isn't a formal ascension path. I kinda think it should be though.

 

[Liquid Ghost]

I'd like to see a Psionic origin where the populace (or some of them) already have access to rudimentary telekinesis and telepathy for RP purposes. It would make sense for non-humanoid species that lack appendages to manipulate tools.

 

[MathyM]

I definitely see it.

Megaconstruction isn't a formal ascension path, sure, since it doesn't shut off access to any of the other three. I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. To me it absolutely feels like an informal one though.

You need to use several of your ascension perks to fully take advantage of mega-construction. (Anywhere from three to five depending on if we include arcologies and colossi.) If we just say Master Builders, Voidborne and Galactic Wonders, though, that's as many picks as taking one of the formal ascension paths.

While it's certainly not impossible for you to take both all of the construction perks and a full ascension path, when you include technology prerequisites and the ascension perk tiers it's difficult. Unless you really plan in advance, by the time you start picking the ascension perks that are gated behind tiers or technology you'll have picked a few of the early perks already. That makes it unlikely you'll have the space to pick both a full ascension path and all of the construction perks. (Again, not impossible, but it probably means leaving several AP slots open in the early game until you tech up quite a bit.)

Plus, thematically there are several other ascension perks that work together to create narratively and mechanically good informal ascension path around void construction. You can throw in picks like Eternal Vigilance and Grasp the Void to really build out a society organized around conquering space.

And, personally, I like the megaconstruction narrative just as much as any of the other ascension paths. I like the story of an empire that chooses to grow through building and exploration. If I'm playing as The Federation, I can't see them becoming a civilization of cyborgs, genetic purifiers, or psionic elites. I can see them, though, growing into a race of explorers who create galactic wonders and draw strength from their ingenuity.

Construction definitely isn't a formal ascension path. I kinda think it should be though.

You can't just twist the definition of ascension paths in your head just because the limited number of APs prevents you from taking EVERY construction AP + the APs you also want (really, 5 construction APs + 2 ascension path APs, that's 7 APs, can't fit that in a single empire?).

That's like saying armies are informal fleets because they do combat and also have a leader and stuff. You're twisting a definition that the entire community understands just because you have a different idea of what an ascension path should be.

Again, think of ascension paths as paths in a graph (or digraph), not as sets of ascension perks that you can take any subset of.

It also doesn't ascend your species (as is the theme for ascension paths), but rather your empire, as others have stated.

 

[methegrate]

You can't just twist the definition of ascension paths in your head just because the limited number of APs prevents you from taking EVERY construction AP + the APs you also want (really, 5 construction APs + 2 ascension path APs, that's 7 APs, can't fit that in a single empire?).

That's like saying armies are informal fleets because they do combat and also have a leader and stuff. You're twisting a definition that the entire community understands just because you have a different idea of what an ascension path should be.

Again, think of ascension paths as paths in a graph (or digraph), not as sets of ascension perks that you can take any subset of.

It also doesn't ascend your species (as is the theme for ascension paths), but rather your empire, as others have stated.

I think that's where the question comes in, though: What is the story that this is telling?

And I think you put your finger on it. Is an ascension path specifically something that happens to change the empire's population, or is it something that happens to change your empire and its people overall? That is, does it have to be a physical change to the individuals or can it be the story of your empire's history? And there is no clear cut answer. Both options work well.

Personally, I like ascension paths as the story of where your empire is headed overall. Mega-construction fits into that narrative perfectly. One empire might grow into a culture that tinkers with their genetics. Another might graft technology into themselves. Another might build grand, star-spanning structures.

That also fits really well for me specifically. I tend to like playing as Federation-style good guys and I've never thought that the classic three ascension paths fits that type of narrative. I can't see the Federation leveling up to The Shroud, but I can definitely see them as the nation of builders and artists in a galaxy filled with gods and monsters.

On the other hand, you can think about ascension paths as just something that happens to your empire's individual pops. If this is the story of how the individual members of your empire change over time, then sure. Mega-construction doesn't fit with that narrative. Grand structures change your empire, but they don't physically change its individual people.

Both of these stories fit with Stellaris perfectly well. Personally, I think the empire-based version works better because the empires of Stellaris are the characters in its story. So I like having ascension paths tell the story of where your empire is headed. Beyond that, though, I don't think anyone is twisting the definition of what an ascension path is.

That's why people say construction feels like an ascension path. It isn't a formal AP. But even if it's quite possible to both have a full ascension path and construction perks, usually you end up having to pick one or the other. And even if it isn't a formal narrative, it certainly feels like a good story for your empire to tell. It feels like it plays the same role, even if you're certainly free to have psionic megabuilders.