Hope for a 'playable' Communist China?

[unmerged(54240)]

Let me just begin with a reminder of how significant this time period was for Communist China's history: At the start of the game period in 1936, the Communists were pretty much bunch of bandits numbering few thousand that just barely escaped total annhilation by the Nationalists. By the end of the game's time frame the Communist army numbered 3~4 million men and they were on their way to drive the Nationalists out of mainland China setting its stage to become a major world power. No country in this time period accomplished so much starting with so little.

But in the game (based on HoI2), this is hardly the case for ComChina as they do almost nothing as AI and can only be played ahistorically as human.

The main issues are:
-ComChina cannot sustain themselves with the resources they produce
-It's almost impossible to trade (especially during war)
-The game doesn't reflect guerilla warfare too well
-Impossible to grow army with tiny IC (historically they grew to an enormous size during the war. The 8th route army for example grew from 30,000 men in 1937 to 156,000 in 1938 and 400,000 by 1940 )
-ComChina gets sucked into United Front and becomes Nationalists' little b!tch unable to do anything
-Soviet Union almost never invades Manchuria and 'Manchuria to Mao' event never gets fired as a result
-the game doesn't reflect the Nationalists' low morale and desertion during the civil war
-etc, etc...

I can't really give any specific suggestions/ideas as I don't know what the game is going to be like. I know Paradox probably wouldn't spend too much time dealing with ComChina but I hope they at least look into some of these issues to be worked on.

 

[unmerged(94026)]

I strongly agree with you.
But I don't expect pdx tp study into that piece of history...

 

[unmerged(83998)]

Given actual history only one thing could work : events. Otherwise, nerfing nat china soldier org/morale will just result in japan taking over china faster.

Honestly communist china is ok as it is in hoi2. It's one of the few countries where you can turn a war between two rivals to your complete advantage and turn a minor into a supergiant. Which, if you think, is only remotely ahistorical : it just happens faster than it should

 

[Oerdin]

I always thought ComChi was very playable in HOI2.

 

[unmerged(93964)]

A good Communist China player is able to drive the Nationalists out to Taiwan, if he builds tons of Militias and focuses on standing army
You got at least 10 Years until you finally beat the Nationalists. Whith their main industrial centers in the Sino-Japanese war like chonqing and Chengdu in your reach and a good opportunity to strike the main land of national china + inheritage of manchuria by soviet union in many cases (that far was my experience) gives the Communists the possibility to remove Chiang and the nationalists till Taiwan. What i dislike are pre-war events that feature the time after world war 2 (especially when the game goes to 1964 in Armageddon)
China could have more events.

 

[Lazy_Boy]

Well imo it would become a lot more realistic and playable if they make IC less of a factor in unit production. If the manpower is available you should be able to organize it into a large army no matter how ineffective it is.

Imo HOI3 should use a vicky style system (although more simple and easier to manage) where you could have no industry yet receive guns from foreigners and form an army from your populace.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

Welcome to the real problems Communist China face

Mao didn't have it so easy ...

 

[bbasgen]

Simply stated, the game should allow for a reasonable degree of chance that a given historical outcome actually occurs. In HoI2, it is impossible to see a CHC AI win the war, let alone AI annex China. It is instead extremely likely for CHC to be annexed by Japan; otherwise CHC will be stagnant for the entire course of the game. People can debate how unlikely this or that outcome may have been for any aspect of the war, but it seems reasonable for the game to model a decent chance for history to actually occur.

Truth be told, this goes way beyond CHC. The game does not handle the war in China well at all. The Chinese improvement pact mod people have shown this very well through a huge number of fixes and corrections.

 

[Naga Niome]

All y'all problems sound reasonable and I perfectly agree but I think it has to do with them having a meager three provinces and that really sucks. Since the rest of Nationalist China has many, many tiny provinces they're pretty much a mini-buffer between the Japanese and Nationalist.

I am looking forward to see if they'll give Communist China like 5-7 provinces so both countries can go back and forth losing territory without it being fatal. Perhaps more self-sufficiency in resources and IC should be expected.

 

[Zanza]

It would be good if civil wars would follow different mechanics than "normal" wars. Both in Spain and in China you should be able to use manpower and IC of territory you control to full extent and not have to wait until you win the war and annex.

Adding some kind of "rebels with a cause" a la EU3:IN that are sympathetic to one of the parties in a civil war would be neat too.

 

[ROMANU]

events are made for this kind of issues, I am 90% shure that paradox will not bult anything alse beyound the general events but in 2-3 weeks there will be a consolidated china pack

for example, if com chia gets a certain province(es) the nats loose 2 divs and 5 morrale and you gain 1 mil and 2 morrale.... it's really simple

and about the great acheevements of the communists, they were chineese and there was a civil war, not an emerging new nation that ocupied china... and many other countries acheeved a lot more than that

 

[unmerged(42324)]

It would be good if civil wars would follow different mechanics than "normal" wars. Both in Spain and in China you should be able to use manpower and IC of territory you control to full extent and not have to wait until you win the war and annex.

Adding some kind of "rebels with a cause" a la EU3:IN that are sympathetic to one of the parties in a civil war would be neat too.

cant you use manpower, resources and ic out a province you occupy (ie not owned by you ) if it is one of your national provinces? correct my if im wrong but i think that is the case.

 

[Sarganto]

I don't think that any game mechanics should be changed for Communist China, but events should be used to reflect the changes and the growth of the commie-army.

 

[Deus Eversor]

the greatest problem with chc i had is that that when i go united front
national china annexes shanxi (japan did not conquer it yet) takes its land and force then when we repulse the japan its the nationals that regain territory and then there is no other way than nationals gaining manchuria
besides the fact that nationals are ready to annex every ally just because they lost some vp is sick