Honest migration mehanics

[HZguy]

Please don`t add scripted migration mechanics this time.
It was really frustrating to see thousands of my citizens flowing from my free and rich country to USA, which is fascist dictatorship and suffers from constant British occupation

 

[DuroSVK]

Well, on the other hand, there was a lot of free land for everyone in America and that mattered too.
Althought I agree that political system should have huge impact on migration, but there were many other factors we need to consider.

 

[HZguy]

Well, on the other hand, there was a lot of free land for everyone in America and that mattered too.
Althought I agree that political system should have huge impact on migration, but there were many other factors we need to consider.

This free land should be represented too and must have restrictions

 

[Ottoman Master]

This free land should be represented too and must have restrictions

What do you mean "must have restrictions"? As long as they're historical, sure, but we shouldn't just start arbitrarily throwing out historical attributes for the sake of sand boxing.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Please don`t add scripted migration mechanics this time.
It was really frustrating to see thousands of my citizens flowing from my free and rich country to USA, which is fascist dictatorship and suffers from constant British occupation

The announcements have already said that migrations will be dynamic, with emigration waves happening when a country is in crisis or has a bunch of unhappy POPs and they will seek a better country to move to. It won't be hardcoded.

 

[Arknav555]

What do you mean "must have restrictions"? As long as they're historical, sure, but we shouldn't just start arbitrarily throwing out historical attributes for the sake of sand boxing.

A US thats loses all it's free land to Mexico and Britain should not still gain millions of immigrants to NYC and the surrounding area. Instead, it should be calculated perhaps by a formula considering life rating, reforms, number of farmers, aristocrats, etc. to determine the attraction for immigrants

 

[Prometheus_1]

Well, on the other hand, there was a lot of free land for everyone in America and that mattered too.
Althought I agree that political system should have huge impact on migration, but there were many other factors we need to consider.

But it wasn't free, what about native americans?

 

[Guedes]

Migration formulas in Vicky 2 are actually pretty good.

What breaks it is that for some reason the devs put a hidden imb4 hard-coded bonus to USA and Brazil in the country migration targets that makes those two countries receive tons of migration no matter what.

 

[Arknav555]

But it wasn't free, what about native americans?

I don't think the European (or Asian) migrants cared much about that.

 

[Ottoman Master]

But it wasn't free, what about native americans?

The maybe 1 million left scattered across the continent?

 

[Darsara]

But it wasn't free, what about native americans?

Under the opinions of the 19th century, they rarely counted.

 

[C.D. Howe]

According to the historian Alan Taylor; prolonged warfare with Mexicans and Comanche bankrupted Texas. Additionally, despite the USA promising to be stop Comanche from raiding Mexico in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the Americans were unable to do so and Mexico absolved them of this responsibility during the Gadsen Purchase. While the Comanche were ultimately not successful in their long term struggle against the Americans, they were a fairly large thorn in the side of the much larger power and had been quite successful in resisting Mexico.

It's not quite "free land" given the level of conflict to conquer these areas.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

But it wasn't free, what about native americans?

USA: who?

 

[Ottoman Master]

According to the historian Alan Taylor; prolonged warfare with Mexicans and Comanche bankrupted Texas. Additionally, despite the USA promising to be stop Comanche from raiding Mexico in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the Americans were unable to do so and Mexico absolved them of this responsibility during the Gadsen Purchase. While the Comanche were ultimately not successful in their long term struggle against the Americans, they were a fairly large thorn in the side of the much larger power and had been quite successful in resisting Mexico.

It's not quite "free land" given the level of conflict to conquer these areas.

The lands of the Mexican Cession aren't the lands referred to by "free lands" since they drew less than 5% of the foreign immigration to the United States during the period. The places that drew 90+% of the European immigration to the US were already owned by the US in 1836.

 

[HZguy]

What do you mean "must have restrictions"? As long as they're historical, sure, but we shouldn't just start arbitrarily throwing out historical attributes for the sake of sand boxing.

Land must attract primarily farmers and aristoctrats: so was in real life, when european villagers went to Americas for unsettled land. Other PoPs, however, should migrate with other conditions. For instance, craftsmen will be attracted by industry and rather move to England or North Germany. My petition is not to prevent PoPs flowing to Americas, but is to make it clear. USA and Brazil have quite plenty resourses, and it would be more logical for PoPs to be attracted by these resourses, not just by script (which makes possible migration to Switzerland, for example)

 

[C.D. Howe]

Discrimination and persecution should also be a major factor as it explains why so many religious minorities in Europe migrated to the United States, why the Mormons moved from Missouri to Illinois before moving westward and why many African Americans emigrated from the USA to Canada.

Taxation should be another reason as well. In the late 1700s, most of the Upper Canada inhabitants were "late Loyalists" who moved to Upper Canada in large part because it had lower taxes than the United States (and cheaper land).

 

[Leoreth]

Note that "arable land" has already been mentioned by the devs as a variable that will be tracked, and used for purposes such as food production. It can be assumed that most of the arable land will be already in use for areas like western Europe (although it would be cool for developments like enclosures and homesteading to be represented too). USA and other American countries will probably have more arable land than their initial population can use.

In my opinion, this discrepancy should be the driving force of emigration and immigration: poor people will migrate to places with lots of free arable land. This phenomenon was the main driver of mass migration from Europe to the US during the 19th century at least. Political rights also played a role, especially where they facilitated easy access to the undeveloped lands, but they are not as important as economic reasons for the lion's share of migrants coming to the US from Europe.

 

[j4freeman]

The lands of the Mexican Cession aren't the lands referred to by "free lands" since they drew less than 5% of the foreign immigration to the United States during the period. The places that drew 90+% of the European immigration to the US were already owned by the US in 1836.

Where did you get such granular numbers? Not disputing your point but would love to see the data/source you're getting that from for future reference.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Note that "arable land" has already been mentioned by the devs as a variable that will be tracked, and used for purposes such as food production. It can be assumed that most of the arable land will be already in use for areas like western Europe (although it would be cool for developments like enclosures and homesteading to be represented too). USA and other American countries will probably have more arable land than their initial population can use.

In my opinion, this discrepancy should be the driving force of emigration and immigration: poor people will migrate to places with lots of free arable land. This phenomenon was the main driver of mass migration from Europe to the US during the 19th century at least. Political rights also played a role, especially where they facilitated easy access to the undeveloped lands, but they are not as important as economic reasons for the lion's share of migrants coming to the US from Europe.

Good idea, the system should be somewhat regulated and temperated tho, otherwise we will end up with millions and millions of people in Brasil and Argentina

 

[Negru Voda]

Note that "arable land" has already been mentioned by the devs as a variable that will be tracked, and used for purposes such as food production. It can be assumed that most of the arable land will be already in use for areas like western Europe (although it would be cool for developments like enclosures and homesteading to be represented too). USA and other American countries will probably have more arable land than their initial population can use.

In my opinion, this discrepancy should be the driving force of emigration and immigration: poor people will migrate to places with lots of free arable land. This phenomenon was the main driver of mass migration from Europe to the US during the 19th century at least. Political rights also played a role, especially where they facilitated easy access to the undeveloped lands, but they are not as important as economic reasons for the lion's share of migrants coming to the US from Europe.

Yea, this could be a big factor.

I also wonder if bureaucratic capacity will play into managing migration flow, or integrating new arrivals and if there will be a separation between discrimination and immigration laws? Like can a state have closed borders but not discriminate the pops of non primary cultures in it? Or will “discrimination” be a catch-all concept that generalizes country’s sociopolitical stance on a culture.