holy wars....

[Tryvenyal]

Yep.. I don't like the holy Wars and there are several reasons for that:

• Powerlevel - they give full controll to the conquered area(Non-muslim)
  
• You don't get the duchy- title and often can't create/usurp it
  
• what´s under the title currently does not matter.
• Sometimes I would have preferred to retain the local count... for claims, bloodlines, RP or whatever!

What I want to do:

• Use a "Religious claim" CB - that actually works as you have a strong claim on titles you can today holy war for.
• War works exactly as it would be a ducal claim- war except you have no claim and the holy- war part with others joining.
• I would like there to be a declaration cost for every religion.
• Landholders conquered this way should have to decide whether to leave their holding or convert... possibly falsely...

 

[A1vin]

Mostly good, but I am afraid there will be some issues handling holy wars like claims wars.
Issue 1 the duchy title might not exist, giving you an empty title, if able to attack at all.
Issue 2 the duchy title exist, but not in its de jure location, giving you nothing, or something that you might not have access to depending on what titles and vassals the target has.
Issue 3 the duchy exist, but some of the titles are currently under another de facto duchy, leaving holes in your conquered land.
Issue 4 the duchy exist, and it has more land than it should.

Duchy (as well as kingdom and empire) claim wars can be infuriating if the target has other titles of the same level or higher, or if sub-titles that you expect to be a part of the target title isn't. I have fought wars over an empire, but because the target had created another empire title, I only ended up with a duchy and a couple of counties, all the other titles were moved to the other empire.

You can playtest this by giving yourself claims in console, I guess you will notice some problematic situations.

 

[Tryvenyal]

@A1vin
Issue 1 - No duchy, no CB For me, this is not an issue but I realize it can be for others.
Issue 2 - 4 - You get the title and what is defacto under it, but bordergore is an issue indeed... I can stretch to empowering the CB to retract/usurp dejure vassals under the title, given that the new CB should have an extended cost to start. The defacto capital of the holder and the entire duchy should be required to give the ticking warscore

With a cost, some peity and some gold likely, a sometimes more flexible outcome is motiveted.
This requires to the player to look and do the calculation before deciding. Opportunism
If the holder of the target has multiple duchies, only the de-jure counties will be usurped/transferred.