Holy Roman Empire literally Nov 18 patch

[Major Sharpe]

K this isnt a rant about how the kingdom of Germany should be the HRE so dont worry

Rather odd phenomena though, Papal states fell to Byzantium arround 1100, and a decade later or so they reformed in Lorraine (forget the specific provenice). I'm not sure what happened after that, I tried to find the pope, but couldnt, then in 1143 i recieved the rather unusual message, "Adolf King of Germany has passed away and the curia have elected Steward Alessandro the new pope", then i clicked on the Germany tag to find that they had some how acquired the title pope, in addition to germany et al, making it literally the Holy roman empire. Then in 1144 recieved another message announcing that the papal states had been established in Provence, checked the King of Germany and he was no longer pope, though the papal states were a vassal of Germany

 

[Earl Uhtred]

That's really cool

 

[unmerged(7415)]

Popes, Emperors, and Stem Dukes

This is a bad thing which is not supposed to happen anymore. It did happen in my last game too. The problem was that the Emperor-Pope then kept the Papacy in his family as a hereditary title. This is not possible under any mutation of feudalism that I am aware of.

In a loose sense, the Papal-Imperial-StemDuke triangle served as checks and balances in the feudal system.

A. Only the Pope can crown an Emperor, but he must be elected (or at least recognized) by the Stem Duchies. This is not to discount the number of uncrowned Emperors, but the Popes blessing remained a much sought status.

B. The Pope may be elected by cardinals, but so often he served at the pleasure of the Emperor and his Dukes. In fact, crossing the alps with a host to seize or replace the Pope is almost a medeval cliche.

C. Likewise the Dukes were vassals of the Emperor, and subject to bishops placed by the Pope. Exception: Lay Investure. ...like I said, a loose sense.

The main point being that the Pope and Emperor cannot be the same person. It was considered abominable, and never happenned.

 

[SecondReich]

There needs to be an actual Holy Roman Empire title in the game. What really bugs me is that it COULD be done, they just don't want to do it.

 

[unmerged(7415)]

The power of the classical Roman emperors was derived from a range of titles such as 'Pater Patriae', 'Pontifex Maximus', etc... not to mention Consul, etc.

I thought that the Holy Roman emperors derived their power through four crowns: Lombardy, Rome, Germany, and Burgundy.

The Franconian Conrad I was elected to the crown of Germany in 911 after the Carolingian line failed.

The Iron Crown of Lombardy was seized by Otto I in 961.

The crown of Burgundy was inherited by Conrad II in 1032.

The crown of Rome was not the Papal seat, but an equivalent to the crown granted to Odoacer in 476 (the King of Italy). It was largely ceremonial, and subject to the conditions of the Donation of Constantine which gave secular authority over much of the region to the Pope.

CK has only three crowns for the Emperor, because the crown of Rome is reserved de facto for the Pope.

 

[Solmyr]

It seems that AI can still get claims on "unclaimable" titles such as Papal States and the knightly orders. I've seen the Prince of Polotsk crush the Teutonic Order, receive their title in the peace deal, and promptly become the Teutonic Order himself.