Holy Guardians FE

[Ophisx]

Hey, I don't know if I am just unlucky or something like that, but Holy Guardians seem to be literally AFK no matter what their attitude of you is (Patronizing).
They do not seem to have any request either, not even asking you to cleanse a planet they deem "Holy" (Collectivist).
Whenever I managed to get their attitude to Patronizing (through traits), it does not seem to change.

Also, they keep declaring wars against the Blasphemers even though when they have a far more pathetic fleet power and keeps doing the White Peace.
Is that working as intended or Xenophile/Materialists are the only ones who can gift you?

 

[henzington]

As far as I know the spiritualist just get upset about empires colonizing holy worlds and to a lesser degree tomb worlds.

 

[Ophisx]

Even Fanatical Purifiers do not declare war to "commit suicide", it seems that only aggressive FEs behave like that. Holy Guardians do not seem to gift you anything even if they are Patronizing towards you.
Funniest thing is that despite losing successive wars, they did not awaken, even after a hundred of years later xD

 

[henzington]

Even Fanatical Purifiers do not declare war to "commit suicide", it seems that only aggressive FEs behave like that. Holy Guardians do not seem to gift you anything even if they are Patronizing towards you.
Funniest thing is that despite losing successive wars, they did not awaken, even after a hundred of years later xD

I am pretty sure that fallen empires need a certain fleet strength to awaken.

 

[Drowe]

I am pretty sure that fallen empires need a certain fleet strength to awaken.

I doubt it, otherwise it would be relatively easy to keep FEs permanently asleep, since they do not build ships until they awake.

Causes for waking up are, endgame crisis or any FE losing territory or any regular empire exceeding a certain fleetpower threshold.

 

[Ophisx]

I doubt it, otherwise it would be relatively easy to keep FEs permanently asleep, since they do not build ships until they awake.

Causes for waking up are, endgame crisis or any FE losing territory or any regular empire exceeding a certain fleetpower threshold.

It just increases the rate at which a FE can awaken though. Unfortunately this game has some luck mechanics (Prethoryn Swarm trigger being one of them). The MTTH mechanic should be instead a 100% probability. You can indefinitely load your ironman saved game whenever you heard that a FE just awakened or you do not want a crisis to happen at that moment.

But to go back to the other point of my topic: are Holy Guardians FE supposed not to gift you anything if they are even patronizing you? Or do they not give you tasks to achieve (for instance, even if you are not collectivist, they can give you the right to cleanse said Holy/Tomb world against a specific Empire)?

 

[Foefaller]

I doubt it, otherwise it would be relatively easy to keep FEs permanently asleep, since they do not build ships until they awake.

Causes for waking up are, endgame crisis or any FE losing territory or any regular empire exceeding a certain fleetpower threshold.

No, there is actually a fleet power requirement, from the fallen_empire_awakening_events file:

# Sleepers Awake
country_event = {
    id = fallen_empires_awakening.1
    title = OK
    desc = OK
 
    hide_window = yes
 
    trigger = {
        NOT = { has_global_flag = sleepers_awake_happened }
        NOT = { has_global_flag = guardians_of_the_galaxy_happened }
 
        years_passed > 100
 
        is_country_type = fallen_empire
        is_at_war = no
        fleet_power > 40000

(The Rival for the War in Heaven and the Guardian of the Galaxy for a Crisis have the same fleet requirement.)

My guess is that it's there to prevent an FE from waking up, gaining a bunch of ships (based on how many regular empires have a fleet above 50k, if I read this right) and declaring war right after a mutually destructive war with a player.

It's worth noting, however, that the belief that regular fallen empires never get any new ships is not true. They can, But only in an event that can only trigger when they are not at war. That one's found in the fallen_empire_events folder:

# Fallen Empire gets some fleet back
country_event = {
    id = fallen_empires.1
    title = OK
    desc = OK
 
    hide_window = yes
 
    mean_time_to_happen = {
        months = 1
    }
 
    trigger = {
        is_country_type = fallen_empire
        is_at_war = no
        fleet_power < 5000
    }
 
    immediate = {
        country_event = { id = fallen_empires.13 }
    }
}

(The ships spawned, btw, is 8 Battlecruiers and 12 Frigates.)

So while an FE that is constantly being beat on is less likely to awaken, it's still a possiblity, especially if they are left alone for some time, or an FE world somewhere else is taken (an FE losing a world to a player drops the MTTH from 50 years to 5, but only for FEs *other* than the one that lost the world.)

 

[Foefaller]

It just increases the rate at which a FE can awaken though. Unfortunately this game has some luck mechanics (Prethoryn Swarm trigger being one of them). The MTTH mechanic should be instead a 100% probability. You can indefinitely load your ironman saved game whenever you heard that a FE just awakened or you do not want a crisis to happen at that moment.

But to go back to the other point of my topic: are Holy Guardians FE supposed not to gift you anything if they are even patronizing you? Or do they not give you tasks to achieve (for instance, even if you are not collectivist, they can give you the right to cleanse said Holy/Tomb world against a specific Empire)?

Only Xenophiles and Materialists ever give you anything. The only interaction you ever get from pre-awakened Spiritualists and Xenophobes is to abandon that world or else.

 

[Pchang]

I discovered that if a Holy Guardian awakens, they stop caring about Holy Worlds and you can colonize them without antagonizing the Holy Guardian.

 

[Drowe]

No, there is actually a fleet power requirement, from the fallen_empire_awakening_events file:

# Sleepers Awake
country_event = {
    id = fallen_empires_awakening.1
    title = OK
    desc = OK
 
    hide_window = yes
 
    trigger = {
        NOT = { has_global_flag = sleepers_awake_happened }
        NOT = { has_global_flag = guardians_of_the_galaxy_happened }
 
        years_passed > 100
 
        is_country_type = fallen_empire
        is_at_war = no
        fleet_power > 40000

(The Rival for the War in Heaven and the Guardian of the Galaxy for a Crisis have the same fleet requirement.)

My guess is that it's there to prevent an FE from waking up, gaining a bunch of ships (based on how many regular empires have a fleet above 50k, if I read this right) and declaring war right after a mutually destructive war with a player.

It's worth noting, however, that the belief that regular fallen empires never get any new ships is not true. They can, But only in an event that can only trigger when they are not at war. That one's found in the fallen_empire_events folder:

# Fallen Empire gets some fleet back
country_event = {
    id = fallen_empires.1
    title = OK
    desc = OK
 
    hide_window = yes
 
    mean_time_to_happen = {
        months = 1
    }
 
    trigger = {
        is_country_type = fallen_empire
        is_at_war = no
        fleet_power < 5000
    }
 
    immediate = {
        country_event = { id = fallen_empires.13 }
    }
}

(The ships spawned, btw, is 8 Battlecruiers and 12 Frigates.)

So while an FE that is constantly being beat on is less likely to awaken, it's still a possiblity, especially if they are left alone for some time, or an FE world somewhere else is taken (an FE losing a world to a player drops the MTTH from 50 years to 5, but only for FEs *other* than the one that lost the world.)

Interesting bit of information, so an FE with less than 40k fleetpower but more than 5k will never awaken, by normal means. Essentially I just need to grind all of them down to below 40k fleetpower before my own fleetpower can trigger them to awaken. Question is, do their defense stations count as fleetpower? If so, leaving a few of them alive is all that is needed to prevent them from awakening and prevent them gaining new ships by event.

 

[macd21]

Interesting bit of information, so an FE with less than 40k fleetpower but more than 5k will never awaken, by normal means. Essentially I just need to grind all of them down to below 40k fleetpower before my own fleetpower can trigger them to awaken. Question is, do their defense stations count as fleetpower? If so, leaving a few of them alive is all that is needed to prevent them from awakening and prevent them gaining new ships by event.

I doubt it, however IME you don't need to worry about the event giving them a new fleet, as the fleet it provides doesn't meet the minimum for Awakening. So you just need to crush them once.

 

[Ophisx]

Only Xenophiles and Materialists ever give you anything. The only interaction you ever get from pre-awakened Spiritualists and Xenophobes is to abandon that world or else.

Yeah I know from 1.3 notes, but you can still get the Holy Guardians to be Patronizing, and that attitude shift does not change anything in their behavior towards you.

I discovered that if a Holy Guardian awakens, they stop caring about Holy Worlds and you can colonize them without antagonizing the Holy Guardian.

Same for the Keepers, they stop caring about Ai Robotics once they awaken.

 

[Diezy]

They're the most passive of the FE's by far.

Terraforming the Tomb world and then colonizing it won't anger them, and since a few patches, the amount of Holy Worlds they have is much smaller, and some even spawn within the FE.

Same for the Keepers, they stop caring about Ai Robotics once they awaken.

It was hinted that in Utopia, if your civ takes the Robotic Ascension route,the Awakened Materialist Empire will now get involved!
I wonder if the Holy Guardians, once awakened, will react to Psionic Ascension as well...

 

[Ophisx]

It was hinted that in Utopia, if your civ takes the Robotic Ascension route,the Awakened Materialist Empire will now get involved!
I wonder if the Holy Guardians, once awakened, will react to Psionic Ascension as well...

If it will actually be the case, the Holy Guardians should be "gifting" you instead of fighting you and being completely acting AFK like a Militant Isolationist xD