Holy Fury Reformation Doctrine List

[thevmag]

Like I pointed out earlier, they're not allowed to because the unique one is just objectively better.

but it still isn't a bad idea so the player doesn't accidentally or intentionally gimp their religion when choosing given options.

Just some other observations for unique doctrines that would outright replace others since there is no reason one would take the non-unique one over the unique one:

• Totem-Guardians: Religious Tax

That's a downgrade in my book Why would I take only half of Ancestor Veneration and tack on Religious Tax? Religious Tax would be a booby prize, to me.

So, it's not that the uniques are objectively better in each case. They can very much be throwaways, depending on what you're building.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

That's a downgrade in my book Why would I take only half of Ancestor Veneration and tack on Religious Tax? Religious Tax would be a booby prize, to me.

So, it's not that the uniques are objectively better in each case. They can very much be throwaways, depending on what you're building.

I think you'd still be able to take Ancestor Veneration as a reformed African. It's religious tax that has a straight up upgraded version in the form of Totem-Guardians.

 

[DmUa]

That's a downgrade in my book Why would I take only half of Ancestor Veneration and tack on Religious Tax? Religious Tax would be a booby prize, to me.

So, it's not that the uniques are objectively better in each case. They can very much be throwaways, depending on what you're building.

- religious tax is a single bonus doctrine. Totem guardians is 0.5+0.5+1 doctrine. It consist of religious tax+half ancestral veneration+half monasticism. So here are point to make religious tax unselectable for africans.

 

[thevmag]

- religious tax is a single bonus doctrine. Totem guardians is 0.5+0.5+1 doctrine. It consist of religious tax+half ancestral veneration+half monasticism. So here are point to make religious tax unselectable for africans.

Numerically it might give more, but it's halving a good doctrine to tack on a throwaway like religious tax.

It's not about there being numerically more parts. If the argument is "unique doctrines are objectively better", my argument is "they might not be, since they give you incomplete parts of/or doctrines you might not even want".

If it's religious tax itself that's unavailable for Africans on its own, I won't weep

 

[DmUa]

Well according to TheDarkMaster theory only full doctrines will prevent access to their non unique counterparts. So for example Totem Guardians will block Religious Tax but not Monasticism or Ancestral Veneration. So nothing really would stop reforming african to Monasticism+Ancestral Veneration, at least according to TheDarkMaster speculations.

 

[DmUa]

Talking about synergies, according to stream Warmongering+Bloodthirsty Gods enables Flower Wars CB.

 

[Tatterhood]

I doubt AI is that "smart" to take doctrines others than it was scripted to. Most probably reforming AI will always take their respective uniques.

IIRC it's been confirmed to be random with weights based on the religion and the character reforming it, with a high (but not 100%) chance to take the unique one.

 

[Al Davoodi]

i would be curious if the AI will ever take Enatic clans

 

[CoSMoS]

i would be curious if the AI will ever take Enatic clans

Obviously pure speculation, but given that we have been told that the AI will pick according to their traits, it doesn't seem out of the question to see a female reformer with ambitious and proud pick it - or something like that.

 

[Less2]

You know, if we're really going to go into the whole Hellenic LARPing, its special bonus should allow for concubines of either sex. Whadayathink?

 

[Rubidium]

Numerically it might give more, but it's halving a good doctrine to tack on a throwaway like religious tax.

It's not about there being numerically more parts. If the argument is "unique doctrines are objectively better", my argument is "they might not be, since they give you incomplete parts of/or doctrines you might not even want".

If it's religious tax itself that's unavailable for Africans on its own, I won't weep

The argument was specifically about "Religious Tax," saying that there is no reason to ever take Religious Tax as an African, because their unique "Totem-Guardian" doctrine includes it + other stuff. Even if you had little interest in elder succession or order to take vows, having the option is still better than not having it, since you aren't forced to use it (unlike, say Enatic Clans forced enatic succession).

It's certainly possible that you might prefer not to get Totem-Guardian and get "Ancestor Veneration"+"Monasticism" as your two doctrines (if you really value celibate priests+extra learning+sainthood), or combining Totem-Guardian with one of the other two (if you really wanted sainthood, for instance, but also appreciated extra money and the ability to disinherit your kids). Which is why those won't be mutually-exclusive with Totem-Guardian. On the other hand, picking Religious Tax is always going to be a worse decision than just taking Totem-Guardian in its place, so there is no reason not to make those two mutually exclusive.

 

[DmUa]

Snow Crystal spilled some info on how Dogmatic will work.

So it looks like Dogmatic will NEVER convert non-pagans and always convert other pagans. Also unless added for modding purposes looks like Peaceful could potentially be unable to raid after reformation.

So most probably i was right wen suggested that Proselytizing would not get literal bonuses for conversion but will just affect how adherents deal with heathen lands in their disposal.

So we can speculate now how other Nature picks will affect reformed religion.

 

[Red Death]

I've actually still got some questions on reforming Zunism.

• Unreformed zunists can access the Hermetics society, would they lose that upon reformation unless they pick astrology? If they do lose it, why is it not included in their unique doctrine?
• Speaking of their unique doctrine, is there anything linking zunism to polygamy and close-kin marriage thematically, or was that done just for the memes? As I understand, the religion was influenced by hinduism, perhaps that would have given better inspiration for their doctrine.

 

[DmUa]

I've actually still got some questions on reforming Zunism.Unreformed zunists can access the Hermetics society, would they lose that upon reformation unless they pick astrology? If they do lose it, why is it not included in their unique doctrine?

- we know that Hellenic has access to Hermetic from the get go and dont loose it after reformation, so maybe same be with Zun.

• Speaking of their unique doctrine, is there anything linking zunism to polygamy and close-kin marriage thematically, or was that done just for the memes? As I understand, the religion was influenced by hinduism, perhaps that would have given better inspiration for their doctrine.

- memes. Incestoastrians are also memetic

 

[Riftwalker]

Any explanation behind giving slavic river movement? Feels a bit... out of place, maybe?
EDIT: I did a few searches, and it seems that the slavic religion was very heavy on ancestor veneration

the aztecs get to america by reverse engineering viking longboats in the event chain...

 

[SkyGreen24]

the aztecs get to america by reverse engineering viking longboats in the event chain...

I'm aware, but what does that have to do with Slavs?

 

[Riftwalker]

Like I pointed out earlier, they're not allowed to because the unique one is just objectively better. You don't want the AI to randomly decide to use the non-unique option instead of the unique one so the option is forbidden. I suppose they could have messed with the AI weights in this case, but it still isn't a bad idea so the player doesn't accidentally or intentionally gimp their religion when choosing given options.

then put in the code AI_willdo = 0, you don't need to limit the player in the ck2 scripting language.

 

[raistlin_wizard]

I've actually still got some questions on reforming Zunism.

• Unreformed zunists can access the Hermetics society, would they lose that upon reformation unless they pick astrology? If they do lose it, why is it not included in their unique doctrine?
• Speaking of their unique doctrine, is there anything linking zunism to polygamy and close-kin marriage thematically, or was that done just for the memes? As I understand, the religion was influenced by hinduism, perhaps that would have given better inspiration for their doctrine.

There are lots of things we don't know about Zunists, so some things had to be made up. Them taking heavy influence on the former religion in the region it's something that would make sense historically. Zoroastrianism influenced a lot other religions, like Islam.

 

[Science-Recon]

There are lots of things we don't know about Zunists, so some things had to be made up. Them taking heavy influence on the former religion in the region it's something that would make sense historically. Zoroastrianism influenced a lot other religions, like Islam.

Especially considering that to reform it, you have to expand westward. That’d probably decrease the influence of Hinduism and increase the influence of Islam/Zoroastrianism.

 

[raistlin_wizard]

Especially considering that to reform it, you have to expand westward. That’d probably decrease the influence of Hinduism and increase the influence of Islam/Zoroastrianism.

I think you need to expand more to the East than to the West. Taking Heliopolis it's a big no for reformation. You'd normally take the 4 ones that are closest to you. But it's still you taking influence in the persian region.