Holy Fury Reformation Doctrine List

[BrokenSky]

Many societes had/have own "Rite of Passage". Eg. for Jewish this is "Bar Mitzvah" and this haven't slavic sources.

To be fair, that's not exactly the kind of right of passage the reform gives, if I understand correctly?. It's a fair point though

 

[moscal]

To be fair, that's not exactly the kind of right of passage the reform gives, if I understand correctly?. It's a fair point though

I cannot understand your words...

Rite of passage is rite of passage. This isn't specific rite of mainly one society, like you wrote (for Slavs).

Here (in game) we have only situation, when this rite will have higher priority than in times before reformation. Therefore this will have special functions, elements, whatever.

 

[DmUa]

Yeah, ingame rite of passage most probably would be something like - heres your toothpick now go and slay bear with it.

 

[moscal]

Yeah, ingame rite of passage most probably would be something like - heres your toothpick now go and slay bear with it.

Spartan Crypteia can be interpretate as some similar - you are naked and have only dagger and try survive. Do you still are alive? You can be part of Spartian society. And get few cool traits, better atributes, maybe few friends and local -X Revolt Risk

 

[BrokenSky]

I cannot understand your words...

Rite of passage is rite of passage. This isn't specific rite of mainly one society, like you wrote (for Slavs).

Here (in game) we have only situation, when this rite will have higher priority than in times before reformation. Therefore this will have special functions, elements, whatever.

What I mean is that as far as I understand it, it's the kind of rite where you go out into the wilderness for a week and maybe come back changed or don't come back at all, rather than the kind where you go through a cerimony but it doesn't tend to change you, more like the the Spatan thing you mentioned than something like a bar mitzva?

I might be wrong about it of course.

 

[DmUa]

Moscal meant that slavs did not really practiced anything like that. Slavic rite of passage was similar to majority of other passage rites across world that typically did not involved forcing teenagers to participate in hunger games. Ingame rite of passage will most likely indeed would be something SPARTA!!!-like.

 

[moscal]

Slavs had own rite of passage (eg. lechian tribes had "postrzyżyny" - ritual first haircut). But IMO - for reformed, animistic paganism, this rite of passage will be something greater than "cut of hair, small sacrifice for gods/ancestors and banquet". I don't know how mechanical this will be presented, but I thinkt that "rite of passage" will be in style "your way will be way of warrior".

 

[Serenity84]

On Stream they've also said that some combinations will have hidden synergies. If you take Haruspicy and Bloodthirsty Gods you can sacrifice people before a war or battle and read their entrails to get a bonus in battle

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Wait, does Children of Perun not give the 10% ship maintenance? So it's Stability + only a small part of Seabound? Even Invaders gives the full Seabound benefits. That's a bit odd.

 

[DmUa]

Nope, apparently it also does not affect AI behavior the way sea bound and sons of ragnarok do. I wonder if aztecs and slavs will be eligible for viking traits, as we know that picking sea bound does open up possibility for non-norse vikings.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

One doctrine idea I think would make either a good addition for the base game or a mod would be something related to intrigue and culture. Who wouldn't want to have Loki as one of their patron gods? As well as something for those who love decadent culturally focused courts of the upper upper class spending their days engaged in rituals, games, poetry, courtship, and other cultural pursuits. Here's the benefits list I've thought of so far:

• +2 Intrigue for followers of this religion.
• The befriend and antagonize actions are more effective. Members of the religion are more likely to form friendships and rivalries (triggered by special events if mechanics are unavailable due to missing DLC). Rivalries are especially likely with foreign infidels.
• No/reduced penalties for kinslaying, murdering, adulteration, and legitimizing bastards.
• AI is less likely to start religious wars, more likely to start plots (especially to murder dangerous infidels in other courts), and very likely to pick either diplomacy or intrigue focuses (carousing, family, seduction, and intrigue).
• Possibly flavor events for decadent courts that take money and levy penalties for prestige, plot power, and cultural technology.

Some possible names, though it's tough to come up with ways to say that murder and intrigue is good/holy:

• Decadent Court
• Courtly Intrigue
• Shadow Stalkers
• Tricksters
• Underhanded Dealings

EDIT: Also synergy idea, if combined with either warlike or a prepared invasions doctrine, intrigue education characters with at least 10 martial can gain a combat leadership skill upon reaching adulthood and there's one or two special leadership skills unlocked related to religious combat, flanking skill, and experimentality.

 

[moscal]

@TheDarkMaster - here you have topic with suggestions to new pagan doctrines.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/suggestions-pagan-doctrines.1121703/

 

[DmUa]

Also everyone will wear cloaks and fancy masks and participate in orgies.

 

[Eldath]

Well the slavic doctrine is definitely better than what I expected.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised, I half-expected them to be made into the goofball religion.
But this is actually rather good.
I'm absolutely THRILLED that they didn't get some form of polygamy (I don't even really get why tengri got it, and why animism was used so sparingly in special doctrines when lots of the pagan religions are actually shamanistic, like Bön, tengrism, suomenusko).

 

[DmUa]

Apparently Bloodthirsty Gods cant be selected together with peaceful or proselytizing natures, on separate note aztecs are also forbidden to take this doctrine.

Here goes my idea of peaceful and bloodthirsty nomads and hordes.

 

[SaphireSeas]

on separate note aztecs are also forbidden to take this doctrine.

Aztecs can't take it because their special doctrine gives it to them. I suspect that this will be a common theme for doctrines. I expect, for example germanics will not be allowed to take sea-bound.

 

[DmUa]

Thx Captain!

Altough it rather interesting in case of 1.5 or 1.5+0.5 or 0.5+0.5 doctrines. Will Finno-Ugrics be forbidden from taking Stability? Or Balts from taking Ancestor Veneration? Would Slavs be able to pick Sea Bound or Stability? Questions...Questions...Questions...

 

[thevmag]

Bloodthirsty seems rather Aztec inspired. My initial guess is that this is something that they carry over from unreformed to reformed, and thus the game does not let reformed pagans take superfluous doctrines.

BUT, if it is instead the case that they simply cannot get it because their special doctrine provides it, that does give some interesting implications. Wasn't too wowed by some of the unique doctrines, but taking those half-half compromises might be necessary for somethings after all.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Apparently Bloodthirsty Gods cant be selected together with peaceful or proselytizing natures, on separate note aztecs are also forbidden to take this doctrine.

Aztecs can't take it because their special doctrine gives it to them. I suspect that this will be a common theme for doctrines. I expect, for example germanics will not be allowed to take sea-bound.

Like I pointed out earlier, they're not allowed to because the unique one is just objectively better. You don't want the AI to randomly decide to use the non-unique option instead of the unique one so the option is forbidden. I suppose they could have messed with the AI weights in this case, but it still isn't a bad idea so the player doesn't accidentally or intentionally gimp their religion when choosing given options.

Just some other observations for unique doctrines that would outright replace others since there is no reason one would take the non-unique one over the unique one:

• Children of Perun: Stability
• Eternal Riders: Unrelenting and Polygamy
• Sons of Ragnarok: Daring and Seabound
• Totem-Guardians: Religious Tax
• Dawnbreakers: Divine Marriage
• Invaders: Seabound and Bloodthirsty Gods
• Civilized: Syncretism and Meritocracy

Harmonious is an exception, since you might not want to mix meritocracy and equality, plus meritocracy is incompatible with divine marriage. This is also why I think that Dawnbreakers will not replace polygamy, since that also locks off the option of mixing polygamy with meritocracy for reformed Zunist. All other religions would have that option.

Hmm, Aztecs should be able to take Seabound actually, in case they want to take a nature that's incompatible with Bloodthirsty Gods. Same with Hellenism and Meritocracy in case they want to take a nature or doctrine that's incompatible with syncretism....

 

[DmUa]

I doubt AI is that "smart" to take doctrines others than it was scripted to. Most probably reforming AI will always take their respective uniques.