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Holy Fury Reformation Doctrine List

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Rubidium said:
I'd hope that Seafaring would check for coastal as one of the modifiers.

I imagine you see traits more coming into things like:
Lustful/chaste being more/less likely to allow concubines or polygamy
Zealous/cynical being more likely to pick dogmatic/cosmopolitan
Religions generally being more likely to pick their "unique" reform

and so on and so forth. I'd hope that the more unusual religious traits would be extremely rare anyway.
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I don't doubt that there are some things that are weighted very well, but I would suspect that there are possible cases that could spring up where I (or someone else, for that matter) would feel that the decision is subjecitvely wrong and immersion-breaking (for a given value of immersion; I'll still opt into supernatural stuff and Aztecs...).

Sure, you could mod those things out (unless the system is far less flexible than we've been told), but a game rule would make things easier if you want to play a vanilla game to test other things out without having to worry about some pagan ruining the campaign for you with a choice you find to be just plain wrong (particularly if you're playing an Ironman game and thus can't edit the save to deal with the AI's bad choices).
 
The new DD confirmed that Enatic Merchant Republics are now indeed possible!

Random%20World%20Example%201.png
 
Thure said:
The new DD confirmed that Enatic Merchant Republics are now indeed possible!

Random%20World%20Example%201.png
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If I can put my opinion on this, this will probably not be easy to achieve. There are a couple ways for this to happen. The first one being in the base game, you will have to reform a religion and have enatic clans, elevate a female city owner into control of a county, become queen, then give that previous female countess (or heir) control of a duchy. Making that Duchy into a vassal Merchant Republic. The second deals with this picture, and that is that they start out that way under a randomized religion with enatic control, and just start out in control.

On another note, if no one has seen the new DD, then it has a picture of the new religious icon and it has unreformed icons, reformed icons, and reformed heresies. So, there may actually be a way to mod in heresies for the new reformation. But, that's only a possibility, as we don't know how moddable it will be.
 
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AmericanViking said:
If I can put my opinion on this, this will probably not be easy to achieve. There are a couple ways for this to happen. The first one being in the base game, you will have to reform a religion and have enatic clans, elevate a female city owner into control of a county, become queen, then give that previous female countess (or heir) control of a duchy. Making that Duchy into a vassal Merchant Republic. The second deals with this picture, and that is that they start out that way under a randomized religion with enatic control, and just start out in control.

On another note, if no one has seen the new DD, then it has a picture of the new religious icon and it has unreformed icons, reformed icons, and reformed heresies. So, they may actually be a way to mod in heresies for the new reformation. But, that's only a possibility, as we don't know how moddable it will be.
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I Think you forgot to mention the other way to play a MR, start as tribal, reform your religion to include Enatic clans then found a merchant republic yourself
 
AmericanViking said:
Right, my bad. I usually always go feudal, as I prefer that
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Everybody has it's favorite ^^

It's just than pagan at the 769 startdate (which is the one i use the most) are almost all Tribal/Nomadic, with the exception of Zunist who's just one Feudal Realm
so i assumed it to be the default when talking about Pagan,

But yeah, i actually don't know what would happen if for exemple you played a christian MR (as all of them are in the historical startdate) and changed to a Enatic Pagan Religion midway.
 
Vorglich said:
Everybody has it's favorite ^^

It's just than pagan at the 769 startdate (which is the one i use the most) are almost all Tribal/Nomadic, with the exception of Zunist who's just one Feudal Realm
so i assumed it to be the default when talking about Pagan,

But yeah, i actually don't know what would happen if for exemple you played a christian MR (as all of them are in the historical startdate) and changed to a Enatic Pagan Religion midway.
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It may be a feature made solely for randomized world. Being that it would just be too difficult to do in the base game. For pagans, it makes sense to be a possibility, so long as the people have converted and women are in charge when you make the necessary changes to MR. The reason it might not be allowed in the base game is for the very reason you said, that conversion would be confusing as there's no way to get a woman in charge in an already established MR. If it's a vassal I could see the destruction of the title, conversion of the state, take over of women, and finally the re-establishment of the title. But, I'm not quite sure how that would work with an already established MR.

One thing we must remember is that some of the smaller rules, that set the base game the way it is, are changed in random/shattered world. So, it may be that the pre-establishment of Enatic MR's is possible due to the fact that you're re-writing history.
 
The main thing is what sense would it make for a Chieftess to be like "Women are superior, and should rule over both the secular and theocratic realms......... except for trade and finance, that's a man's job lmao"
 
Mechaffinity said:
The main thing is what sense would it make for a Chieftess to be like "Women are superior, and should rule over both the secular and theocratic realms......... except for trade and finance, that's a man's job lmao"
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"Attachment to earthly possessions is poisonous. Let us rule over minds and spirits and leave the mundane to the inferior beings"
 
Mechaffinity said:
The main thing is what sense would it make for a Chieftess to be like "Women are superior, and should rule over both the secular and theocratic realms......... except for trade and finance, that's a man's job lmao"
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Paradox could make it so that in the base game MR's can only be made if you are a male. I agree that enatic MR's should be a thing, and the concept is simple. The only issue is what to do about already established Merchant Republics.

The only way that it could happen is kind of the same way succession works if you come forth as an unreformed pagan, from a secret society. That being that if you have anything other than gavelkind, then you're immediately switched to gavelkind. The idea with already established MR's being that you immediately switch over to the wife of the current player.

The issue being with that is it's changing your character to someone you had no control in building up, and that said person is not from your Dynasty. Even having all marriages being changed to matrilineal would still switch you to a different dynasty. That is of course unless they decide to keep the males dynasty, and just switch the familial controller.
 
As I said before, it makes sense for pagans to be able to do that, as they can't even feudalize, or republicanize, before they reform. So, there will be a period in time where women will be able to gain total control. Then, you will be able to become an Enatic MR on your own, or create a vassal MR. You could even do it as as someone who destroys the title, then converts. Giving your land time to convert and switch over, then create the title again having a woman in charge.

But, the issue is with already independent, and established MR's. The only way to make it an Enatic MR is to somehow destroy the title, convert, let women come into power, recreate the title, and make it your primary. And seeing as how most established MR titles are primary titles, you can't just destroy them.
 
AmericanViking said:
But, the issue is with already independent, and established MR's. The only way to make it an Enatic MR is to somehow destroy the title, convert, let women come into power, recreate the title, and make it your primary. And seeing as how most established MR titles are primary titles, you can't just destroy them.
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How is that the only way? Could you not :
_Make the converted patrician's house succession law enatic (only women are checked for the senority succession, and designated heir title can only be given to a woman, if a man held it prior to conversion, he loses it.
_Restrict that patrician to matrilineal marriage only
_Either force a succession to his eldest female dynast (pretty unpleasant for the player) or grandfather the current patrician in ("yeah, okay, he shouldn't be allowed to rule, but to be fair when he was elected it was legal, let's just wait him out")
_And then doge elections proceed normally, except some of the patricians are women now, and if they get elected they'll most likely get a -20 opinion for being women with female heirs from all the guytricians.

Only problem I see is if a patrician isn't married yet and has no female dynasts, his dynasty would have to die out with him (since he couldn't marry normally anymore, but in this case well :
a. Sucks to be the unmarried patrician with no family members, let's learn from him how not to be that stupid
b. Who cares if it happens to the ai and which player would be dumb enough to involuntarily get in that situation??
c. Also you could just revert to your previous religion, so it isn't even a problem to start with?
 
Chnapy said:
How is that the only way? Could you not :
_Make the converted patrician's house succession law enatic (only women are checked for the senority succession, and designated heir title can only be given to a woman, if a man held it prior to conversion, he loses it.
_Restrict that patrician to matrilineal marriage only
_Either force a succession to his eldest female dynast (pretty unpleasant for the player) or grandfather the current patrician in ("yeah, okay, he shouldn't be allowed to rule, but to be fair when he was elected it was legal, let's just wait him out")
_And then doge elections proceed normally, except some of the patricians are women now, and if they get elected they'll most likely get a -20 opinion for being women with female heirs from all the guytricians.

Only problem I see is if a patrician isn't married yet and has no female dynasts, his dynasty would have to die out with him (since he couldn't marry normally anymore, but in this case well :
a. Sucks to be the unmarried patrician with no family members, let's learn from him how not to be that stupid
b. Who cares if it happens to the ai and which player would be dumb enough to involuntarily get in that situation??
c. Also you could just revert to your previous religion, so it isn't even a problem to start with?
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How muslim inheritance works: female characters can never inherit a title, but it doesn't mean they can't be title holders. It just means if female character is under muslim inheritance system, female characters heir can be only that one is allowed. So, yeah, if you're a female without male heirs, it's GG.
 
Chnapy said:
How is that the only way? Could you not :
_Make the converted patrician's house succession law enatic (only women are checked for the senority succession, and designated heir title can only be given to a woman, if a man held it prior to conversion, he loses it.
_Restrict that patrician to matrilineal marriage only
_Either force a succession to his eldest female dynast (pretty unpleasant for the player) or grandfather the current patrician in ("yeah, okay, he shouldn't be allowed to rule, but to be fair when he was elected it was legal, let's just wait him out")
_And then doge elections proceed normally, except some of the patricians are women now, and if they get elected they'll most likely get a -20 opinion for being women with female heirs from all the guytricians.

Only problem I see is if a patrician isn't married yet and has no female dynasts, his dynasty would have to die out with him (since he couldn't marry normally anymore, but in this case well :
a. Sucks to be the unmarried patrician with no family members, let's learn from him how not to be that stupid
b. Who cares if it happens to the ai and which player would be dumb enough to involuntarily get in that situation??
c. Also you could just revert to your previous religion, so it isn't even a problem to start with?
Click to expand...
MR's are restricted to a specific succession law, and women are not allowed to inherit, ever.
 
Chaincat said:
it just occurred to me that Zunists can join the hermetics by default. Do we know if that will change, or will they have to take astrology still?
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I was wondering that myself. Pagan religions all have 2 or 3 unique things they can do that the organized religions can't. What the new reformation mechanic looks like is sort of like a trading system. Like we are trading out what we can do for what we want to do. They haven't said how much we retain of the old religion. I'm hoping that for things like Zun being able to join the Hermetics, it will stay with the religion, and picking astrology for the ability to join the Hermetics would just be redundant.
 
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