Holland in MP

[unmerged(10146)]

Originally posted by BiB
Yeah, to get Spanish troops there. What if I want to hire mercs from Köln or so? Because that's what the mercs in the game are, foreigners. So if u follow that logic Spain should be able to hire mercs in the Low Countries and Italy without much trouble but shouldn't be able to in Madrid. U can walk straight from the HRE to Flanders. Doing so up to Madrid is just a tad harder

In the game the same merc company is available to be hired in Moscow one day and Madrid the next but Spain shouldn't be allowed to hire them in certain provinces?

Now, that really makes sense! So how about remodelling the whole mercenary concept. They are not hired in your own country, but in OTHER COUNTRIES. Hire them in countries you have MA to and let them come to the province you want them in.

And I suppose joint mercenary pool is also too limited-benevolent concept, depending on a point of view (country and her economy). So how about every province in Europe to have her mercenary capacity?

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
This one sounds good, if I understand it correctly like this:

Assuming your capital is in Europe, mercenaries can be recruited in any European province, which has a land connection to your capital or an unblocked port

Propose it to Johan ASAP.

Thats the intent

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by BiB
Yeah, to get Spanish troops there. What if I want to hire mercs from Köln or so? Because that's what the mercs in the game are, foreigners. So if u follow that logic Spain should be able to hire mercs in the Low Countries and Italy without much trouble but shouldn't be able to in Madrid. U can walk straight from the HRE to Flanders. Doing so up to Madrid is just a tad harder

In the game the same merc company is available to be hired in Moscow one day and Madrid the next but Spain shouldn't be allowed to hire them in certain provinces?

It's not the actual men its the gold to recruit them with it had to come from your capital

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Originally posted by Smirfy

In real life they had to march through Germany to get to Flanders along the "Spanish Road" (room for extra diplomacy and rp here)

I know you weren't strongly making this point, but it was the easiest one to quote .

I think somethign like 80% of the army of Flanders was German and Walloon (which at the time means something like "Belgian" and not just Walloons). I think a good third were protestants. The reason the Spanish Road was critical was
-Spanish policy was basically to keep a Spanish elite core in the Army of Flanders. This was hard to replenish. They also liked to send the Walloons to Germany/Italy and vice versa.
-They lost control of the seas. Obviously there is no way they would have sent troops by way of Milan if they could have shipped them. (Although a lot of the troops moving along the Spanish Road were Italians. Italy was a very good recruiting ground for Spain, second only to Germany.)
-After Spanish credit suffered and Antwerp's role in banking declined it became very difficult for the Spanish to get enough specie to the Netherlands. Their creditors were mostly in Italy, so the problem was in shipping cash from Italy to Flanders, rather than from Spain (that silver went to the creditors in Italy).

I don't think any of this supports the 'link needed to recruit mercenaries' idea. I think using the RR makes a lot more sense - if there is massive dissatisfaction recruiting mercenaries could well be much harder.

edit: To the point about the money coming from the capital - the only reason this was really a problem for Spain was that their credit was so dreadful that it was incredibly expensive for them to use bankers. And the amount of money consumed by the army of Flanders was unprecedented. I don't think the point (which is a good one for this case) generalizes very well.

 

[Smirfy]

Lets try to agree on some points and compare to the Game

1/ Spain had Problems in Flanders
Game/ With the revolts now it does not

2/Spain could not supply its forces in Flanders by sea leading to all sorts of problems
Game/ So What a blockade will have no effect



3/Spain did not pay its troops with credit no gold big trouble
Game/ Does not matter the gold vaults to Flanders

4/The Spanish road was an important lever for France to exert pressure
Game/ see 2

5/ "the problem was in shipping cash from Italy to Flanders, rather than from Spain (that silver went to the creditors in Italy"
You identify a problem yourself
Game/ see 2+4

6/Game/ Recruiting mercenaries does not cause war exhaustion
Holland has to recruit??????

I think its worth a go

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
That would still not allow Spain to recruit mercenaries in Milan, wouldn't it?

I'm sure an Italian province with a port would be annexed very quickly, might even see the Italian wars It might make the Italian minors fun in mp

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by Smirfy
I'm sure an Italian province with a port would be annexed very quickly, might even see the Italian wars It might make the Italian minors fun in mp

Your rule would prevent Spain from recrruiting mercenaries in Milan in a historical situation with historical borders.

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
Your rule would prevent Spain from recrruiting mercenaries in Milan in a historical situation with historical borders.

Yes your right Stein that would be the case, but as I say there are imaginative ways round it like military access, that hike up the boot of Italy would not be too much of a hardship.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Smirfy
It's not the actual men its the gold to recruit them with it had to come from your capital

Same diff, I have a straight line from my capital to the HRE. And the concept of all ur gold being immediataley centralised in ur capital is bogus too anwyay but that's what we have to work with. Trying to limit mercs on such grounds for one nation in certain provinces is equally bogus.

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Smirfy
Lets try to agree on some points and compare to the Game

1/ Spain had Problems in Flanders
Game/ With the revolts now it does not

2/Spain could not supply its forces in Flanders by sea leading to all sorts of problems
Game/ So What a blockade will have no effect



3/Spain did not pay its troops with credit no gold big trouble
Game/ Does not matter the gold vaults to Flanders

4/The Spanish road was an important lever for France to exert pressure
Game/ see 2

5/ "the problem was in shipping cash from Italy to Flanders, rather than from Spain (that silver went to the creditors in Italy"
You identify a problem yourself
Game/ see 2+4

6/Game/ Recruiting mercenaries does not cause war exhaustion
Holland has to recruit??????

I think its worth a go

I dunno if u ever played Spain thru the revolts but not being able to even recruit 1000 men hurts just a tad. A blockade in a similar vein also hurts just a bit

Obviously mercs do no tcause WE, why would Joe Spaniard care if some German merc dies for his nation?

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by BiB
I dunno if u ever played Spain thru the revolts but not being able to even recruit 1000 men hurts just a tad. A blockade in a similar vein also hurts just a bit

Obviously mercs do no tcause WE, why would Joe Spaniard care if some German merc dies for his nation?

Don't get blockaded then

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Smirfy
Don't get blockaded then

A blockaded island with 1000 inhabitants can still recruit (I'm just using numbers of the top of my head here, they could be wrong but the overall thought behind it is right) soldiers but for some reason the Spanish should be forbidden to hire mercs from the HRE for use in the low countries?