Hold the Line, Bring back Sectors.

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hironolind

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One idea for automation, rather than the 4 categories have a table with each "type" of world (agri, refinery, etc) and allow a selection between 3 options for each, so you could choose within a sector whether a type of world is Preferred, Permitted, or Forbidden. Maybe even an option for "Only this type" or a means to designate a world's role during colonisation.
 

Orphalesion

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One idea for automation, rather than the 4 categories have a table with each "type" of world (agri, refinery, etc) and allow a selection between 3 options for each, so you could choose within a sector whether a type of world is Preferred, Permitted, or Forbidden. Maybe even an option for "Only this type" or a means to designate a world's role during colonisation.

For the optional automation, what about being able to designate the various worlds directly as Agri/Forge/Tech/etc. and then, as long as automation is activated the governor A.I. will develop the world according to your designation.
 

Kain2K

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For the optional automation, what about being able to designate the various worlds directly as Agri/Forge/Tech/etc. and then, as long as automation is activated the governor A.I. will develop the world according to your designation.
You mean a system to focus the development on a smaller scale than a sector? Like, doing what every other 4x Game does? I mean even the new colony management system is a more or less a copy of what the Civ series does for years. And not really a good one, at that. So no, that'll not not happen, because Pdox never copied a system from other games in a good way. They always try to go their own way, which isn't bad per se, but when they copy something, they often try to change or fix parts of their copy, that never were broken in the first place. For example, Pdox made a civ like colonymanagement, with their own touch.
But by doing that, they implemented some quirks, that weren't really necessary. Like the housing system. It would've been enough, if they'd implemented overcrowding, and one or two buildings to fight overcrowding. As an example:
Let's say, every colony can sustain a certain number of pops without being overcrowded. Lets say:
Planet size x 2
Once that is reached, you need a building to increase that cap again, the planet size would be an easy to use number. If you again reach the cap, you need to build an other building, to increase it again by the planet size. So in the end every colony would be able to sustain a POP count of four times the planet size. Everything that goes over that will count as overcrowding and produce unhappiness. Same with the stratas. What sounded like a good idea fails, partially, because it is not implemented good enough. Firstly, there is the problem that it doesn't add anything of value to the game. It may sound good in theory, and it may work, but the way Pdox implemented it, it does not. You have no tool to influence of which strata a new pop will be, you have no influence of when a pop will be promoted or demoted to another strata
But, it will generate unhappiness if a pop of a certain strata is unemployed, even so there are free jobs in an other strata, simply because it takes forever for one pop to get promoted or demoted. Just having jobs, and pops working on those jobs would have been enough. Pops that are flagged as slaves, will get substracted a certain amount of happiness by default. If there are no free jobs, a pop will automatically produce unhappiness. On top of that are going bonuses and maluses of other modificators, like faction, living conditions and so on. But, at least in my opinion, stratas weren't a good idea, because they do not add anything of value. So, in short: Pdox copied a well used system, and tried to "improve" it, without thinking of its usefullness, or if it really adds another, meaningfull, layer to the game. On top of that are the Pdox typical bugs, which do their part to worsen the situtation even more.

I really anticipated 2.2 and Megacorp. But so far I find it really difficult to like all of the changes. Playing anykind of machine empire is sheer torment, because it takes forever to get new pops. Machine Species are just bugged to a point, where having more than one, makes it impossible to control which are being built, because Population control does not function properly. The sector system is pure agony, without tweeks in form of a personal mod, and to use the outliner with more than 10 colonies and an UI-scaling mod is nothing more than torture. The trading routes are just awkward. Why do even the most distant parts of my empire try to directly conect with my capital instead of the sector capital or the nearest starbase? Why does every *** starbase generate a trade route, even if it doesn't has a *** trade module? Why did they trade a semi functioning sector automation that at least in theory could work without further player intervention, against a semi functioning sector automation that not even in theory would work without the player intervening regularly, because it needs more money?
I anticipated the patch, because it brought changes that were long overdue, along with bugfixes, that were also overdue. But instead of making things better, they got worse and the anticipated changes are either not functioning properly, or they do, but in a bad way. I have no doubt, that the sector system would work near flawlessly, if it would've been done right. I have no doubt that the new colonysystem would work flawlessly, if it would've been done right.
But they didn't and I partially blame christmas for that, because if they would've taken more time to do things right, everything would've fallen into place, and it would've worked as it should've from the beginning. But so, they released it shortly befor christmas, properly hopeing to sell a few more copies, it's christmas after all, and they rushed things. At least I hope that this is what happend, because if not, this wouldn't really be in Paradox's favor.

So, enough ranting for today, gotta catch my train :)
 

AlexanderSirius

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I VOTE FOR BACKING BACK THE SECTOR MANAGEMENT!!
 

EvilTom

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Sectors, at least should be entirely user configurable, have no cost and just be for the fluff.

If you want to make them a mechanic, I think they should be a method to put in different forms of government, such as federal, vassalage or centralised governments.

Smaller empires (geographically and population) would fair better from direct control (either with one central democratic assembly or imperial seat of government).
Larger empires may require some level of decentralisation (depending on civics, authority, policies, police enforcers etc). This would be simulated by sectors with sector capital buildings, and the size and level of that building affects all the planets in that sector.

Entire sectors can rebel, people get upset when they change sectors (or reduced stability for a year or so). I can also imagine different governer types, such as elected local officials, imported governors/viceroys, or hereditary lords, priests etc based upon the local laws or even your own.

Lack of control would be shown by reduced stability (which affects other things of course like crime, rebellion chance, taxes, production, trade, unity etc) and/or cohesion. Without sectors (or at least mitigating things like I said before, or technologies) your efficiency on large empires should reduce.
 

Orphalesion

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Sectors, at least should be entirely user configurable, have no cost and just be for the fluff.

If you want to make them a mechanic, I think they should be a method to put in different forms of government, such as federal, vassalage or centralised governments.

Smaller empires (geographically and population) would fair better from direct control (either with one central democratic assembly or imperial seat of government).
Larger empires may require some level of decentralisation (depending on civics, authority, policies, police enforcers etc). This would be simulated by sectors with sector capital buildings, and the size and level of that building affects all the planets in that sector.

Entire sectors can rebel, people get upset when they change sectors (or reduced stability for a year or so). I can also imagine different governer types, such as elected local officials, imported governors/viceroys, or hereditary lords, priests etc based upon the local laws or even your own.

Lack of control would be shown by reduced stability (which affects other things of course like crime, rebellion chance, taxes, production, trade, unity etc) and/or cohesion. Without sectors (or at least mitigating things like I said before, or technologies) your efficiency on large empires should reduce.

Particularly in Feudal Empires that would be excellent and a good way of simulating internal politics with your vassals.
Even someone like me who despises Dune would like to get a chance to play the empire pf the Golden Lion Throne.

The current unrest mechanic is pretty negligible, and too restricted, it needs some serious expansion. The only times i really feel it hitting me is when I go for genetic ascension and that event fires where populations modify themselves and fight against each other.

Internal politics should really be the next expansion.
 

Kain2K

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Internal politics should really be the next expansion.
Nah, what's really overdue is a diplomacy rework; because what we have today is nothing more than a bad joke. But before that, they should really go back to the drawing board and fix some of the quirks of MegaCorp. There are far to many things that need improvement and a second look, not everything that's wrong with MegaCorp is a bug. Manythings are just badly designed or seemingly only halfway implemented.

Internal politics could be done after the diplomacy rework ;)
 

EvilTom

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Nah, what's really overdue is a diplomacy rework; because what we have today is nothing more than a bad joke. But before that, they should really go back to the drawing board and fix some of the quirks of MegaCorp. There are far to many things that need improvement and a second look, not everything that's wrong with MegaCorp is a bug. Manythings are just badly designed or seemingly only halfway implemented.

Internal politics could be done after the diplomacy rework ;)

I would've hoped internal and external diplomacy and politics would be done in the same DLC as hopefully the interactions with both your vassals or governers would be as much a negotiation as with your federation members or potential allies (or enemies).

I do agree the quirks of MegaCorp need to be addressed first. In the context of sectors, they just need to go to just having no real mechanics, but are just for our own fun and show. They can then patch on proper mechanics later, but at the moment they're illogical and silly.

What there a game that just had sectors has a predefined 3d cube of space, whose only effect was on trade areas? Sins of a Solar Empire was it? Might have been Sword of the Stars. It was the one with the different races who all had different FTL methods, and I remember the bug species didn't have FTL drives, but had gateways, so it lead to some really interesting methods of playing.
 

Kain2K

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I would've hoped internal and external diplomacy and politics would be done in the same DLC as hopefully the interactions with both your vassals or governers would be as much a negotiation as with your federation members or potential allies (or enemies).
Well, what ever they do, let's hope that they'll take more time for balancing and bugfixing in the future. But that propably won't happen.