Hold the Line, Bring back Sectors.

[Kain2K]

There are a few things, since the sector overhaul that bother me as well. Some are purely aesthetic, others functional.

1. As far as I understand it, every system within two jumps of the first colonised planet, is bundled into a sector. This leads to the problem, that often enough only one or two colonisable planets (including the sector capital) are within the newly created sector. If there is a larger gap of non-habitable systems between colonisable planets this can, in the worst case, lead to one system that will never be part of a sector by natural means (meaning without creating a habitat); or, if you build a habitat, to one-system sectors. This is stupid. It not only makes no sense, it is ugly as hell when you look at the galaxy map. Precreate sectors during the galaxy generation process. This way, there wouldn't be any systems without sectors, also the sector layout would look more natural. Just make shure that every empire capital is in the center of a sector (looks best).
   
2. The automation function is virtually non-existend. As long as you have to manually assign resources to a sector, we can't really speak of any automation what-so-ever. I thought one possible use of sectors was supposed to be, to relieve the player of to much micromanagement. But at the moment I either have to babysit all of my colonies or all of my automated sectors. At least, the outliner gives me an indicator if anything is wrong with any of my planets. If I want to see if my sectors still have enough resources I have to open the sector window. This is not only tedious and bad design, it also destroys the whole purpose of having sectors at all. There should be a symbol in the outliner that show us if a sector is automated (if shown), and if they have enough resources. Also: I can understand that it could be potentially bad if a sector uses the global resource storage, but we really shouldn't have to manually assign them. So either, let them freely use the global resources, or let them keep a part of the ones the sector generates, but only if it is managed automatically.
   
3. This is only partially a problem with the sectors, but definitely one that got worse since the so-called sector overhaul:
   Since 2.2 using the outliner is... pure hell. Its use was already questionable pre 2.2. It tends to be overcrowded, because there are to many things in it, that aren't shown anywhere else. Since there are only a few informations that you need all the time, move some information into existing windows or create new windows and show them there:
   Redesign the Sector and Planet view: It should get some usefull filters, and it should display every information that the outliner, as of today, shows for planets and sectors. Let us favourite planets and sectors, and only show those for quick access in the outliner.
   Give us a fleet window. It should display every fleet, and every single ship that isn't part of a fleet. We should be able to set the fleet and bombardment stances from there, there should also be a checkbox to enable automatic exploration of science vessels. There also should be a link to the fleet manager in there too. Also: Filters, you can't never have enough filters. Ships and fleet should stay in the outliner, since we always need a fast way to access them.
   Then, design a Starbase, Outpost, whatever window. It should show every starbase, with the currently installed modules, and it should be possible to directly build new ships, alter or build new modules and upgrade a starbase or Outpost from there. And, guess what? Filters, still can't have enough of those.
   The whole business thing that came with MegaCorp, can't recall how it is called again, should be integrated into the planet and sector view, possibly into its own tab.
   Did I forget something? Ah, yes: Ongoing terraforming should be integrated into the Expansion planner, ongoing annexations of anykind should be integrated in to the diplomacy view. Both with a checkbox to favorite them, thus showing them in the outliner.
   There is also no need to show every faction in the outliner. Just give us the option to favorite some factions, and show us a warning if something needs our attention (for example if one get's to strong).
   So in short: Move everything that isn't needed all the time into the existing windows, creating new ones as needed, and use the outliner for the thing it normally is used for: To give us quick access to anything, that is so vital, that we need to have allways quick access to. There shouldn't be any information in the outliner that we can't also see somewhere else.

 

[The_God_of_All]

There are a few things, since the sector overhaul that bother me as well. Some are purely aesthetic, others functional.

1. As far as I understand it, every system within two jumps of the first colonised planet, is bundled into a sector. This leads to the problem, that often enough only one or two colonisable planets (including the sector capital) are within the newly created sector. If there is a larger gap of non-habitable systems between colonisable planets this can, in the worst case, lead to one system that will never be part of a sector by natural means (meaning without creating a habitat); or, if you build a habitat, to one-system sectors. This is stupid. It not only makes no sense, it is ugly as hell when you look at the galaxy map. Precreate sectors during the galaxy generation process. This way, there wouldn't be any systems without sectors, also the sector layout would look more natural. Just make shure that every empire capital is in the center of a sector (looks best).
   
2. The automation function is virtually non-existend. As long as you have to manually assign resources to a sector, we can't really speak of any automation what-so-ever. I thought one possible use of sectors was supposed to be, to relieve the player of to much micromanagement. But at the moment I either have to babysit all of my colonies or all of my automated sectors. At least, the outliner gives me an indicator if anything is wrong with any of my planets. If I want to see if my sectors still have enough resources I have to open the sector window. This is not only tedious and bad design, it also destroys the whole purpose of having sectors at all. There should be a symbol in the outliner that show us if a sector is automated (if shown), and if they have enough resources. Also: I can understand that it could be potentially bad if a sector uses the global resource storage, but we really shouldn't have to manually assign them. So either, let them freely use the global resources, or let them keep a part of the ones the sector generates, but only if it is managed automatically.
   
3. This is only partially a problem with the sectors, but definitely one that got worse since the so-called sector overhaul:
   Since 2.2 using the outliner is... pure hell. Its use was already questionable pre 2.2. It tends to be overcrowded, because there are to many things in it, that aren't shown anywhere else. Since there are only a few informations that you need all the time, move some information into existing windows or create new windows and show them there:
   Redesign the Sector and Planet view: It should get some usefull filters, and it should display every information that the outliner, as of today, shows for planets and sectors. Let us favourite planets and sectors, and only show those for quick access in the outliner.
   Give us a fleet window. It should display every fleet, and every single ship that isn't part of a fleet. We should be able to set the fleet and bombardment stances from there, there should also be a checkbox to enable automatic exploration of science vessels. There also should be a link to the fleet manager in there too. Also: Filters, you can't never have enough filters. Ships and fleet should stay in the outliner, since we always need a fast way to access them.
   Then, design a Starbase, Outpost, whatever window. It should show every starbase, with the currently installed modules, and it should be possible to directly build new ships, alter or build new modules and upgrade a starbase or Outpost from there. And, guess what? Filters, still can't have enough of those.
   The whole business thing that came with MegaCorp, can't recall how it is called again, should be integrated into the planet and sector view, possibly into its own tab.
   Did I forget something? Ah, yes: Ongoing terraforming should be integrated into the Expansion planner, ongoing annexations of anykind should be integrated in to the diplomacy view. Both with a checkbox to favorite them, thus showing them in the outliner.
   There is also no need to show every faction in the outliner. Just give us the option to favorite some factions, and show us a warning if something needs our attention (for example if one get's to strong).
   So in short: Move everything that isn't needed all the time into the existing windows, creating new ones as needed, and use the outliner for the thing it normally is used for: To give us quick access to anything, that is so vital, that we need to have allways quick access to. There shouldn't be any information in the outliner that we can't also see somewhere else.

Well put sir well put

 

[methegrate]

It is self-explanatory. You spend most of the time managing a multitude of individual planets. Is that what the ruler of the empire does? Or is that fun?

Yes. Otherwise you just want to play an RTS.

Don't get me wrong, those games are a blast, but a grand strategy/4x game has lots of gameplay on the economic and domestic side too. Which means actually interacting with your empire.

 

[Evaris]

Personally, I would absolutely be fine with the current sectors system... If it was optional and there was a way to manually manage / edit sectors.

I cannot tell you just how annoying it is, when I go to colonize a couple of planets just one or two jumps from one another, but because of how the game automatically creates sectors they both get a brand new sector of their own. Sure, put a limit on sector size, to five or seven or howevermany systems, (I actually like a reasonably limited sector size) but as they are now the auto-generation is way too finnicky.

 

[The_God_of_All]

So upon seeing all the negative reaction and the fact that people seem to actually like the micro-managing mess that Stellaris is now I have decided that it would be selfish of me, (being of the minority opinion that the old sectors were better than this mess), to ask for the game to be changed just for the wish of what is a minority of players. As such I will no longer try to convince others of anything.

To put it bluntly, I have asked for a refund of Megacorp, and have uninstalled Stellaris all together. I shall no longer play this game.

Thank you Paradox for 2 years of great space strategy but this is no longer my sort of game. For the rest please enjoy the game and all the best

 

[Kent_Lang]

While I love what they've done to the game in terms of how they overhauled the planets and the fact that we now can micro our planets, I'd really just like to be able to use my energy toward considering the geo... I mean the stellarpolitical situations that my empire finds itself in instead of deciding to build yet another hydroponics farm on some backwater planet.

Damn, I found a lot like Freeza from the abridged series....

 

[Delthor]

is this what anyone thinks of as fun?

Yes. I'm greatly enjoying the new economic system. It makes peaceful development interesting, and means you need to have a strong foundation before going to war. Conquering new territory also means you have to develop that territory and support it.

I do agree we should be able to redraw sectors. This would likely need some limits so that you can't put 80% of the galaxy in a sector under one governor like before.

I'd also love to see the automation improved, but I haven't even tried auto-build yet, so I have no idea how good or bad it is. Improvements to that are definitely good.

However, I don't want to see the separate stockpiles brought back. It was really annoying losing 25% of the income of most of my empire and needing to spend influence to be able to use it. By all means, give us back manual drawing of sectors and improve automation, but please don't bring back the separate sector economy.

 

[Dissonance]

Size of the sector could have an impact on stability of the planets within the sector.

I do feel they need a rework, but not just sectors.. galaxy generation too. Last game I played I encroached on a FE militarist across the galaxy. No wormhole no gateway.

 

[Delthor]

There are a few things, since the sector overhaul that bother me as well. Some are purely aesthetic, others functional.

1. I agree that the current system for assigning sectors is weird. I think they should just let us control them with certain limits on sector size.
2. Rather than bringing back the "tax" system, why not just give the ability to assign sectors a monthly income from your main stockpile? That way, you don't have to manually assign resources, but you have full control over what the sector gets. Also, add in a limit where the sector stops being given resources if they're above a certain threshold.
3. The outliner can definitely be improved. They just need to allocate the resources, and I imagine they'd come up with something pretty solid. The new planet screen is quite well done in my opinion, at least once you get past the initial hurdle of "Where did X feature go?" and "What are all these new numbers?"

To put it bluntly, I have asked for a refund of Megacorp, and have uninstalled Stellaris all together. I shall no longer play this game.

Thank you Paradox for 2 years of great space strategy but this is no longer my sort of game. For the rest please enjoy the game and all the best

I wouldn't give up entirely yet. Paradox definitely cares about people who don't want to micromanage. They can make a system where both approaches can exist. They just need to improve the auto-build AI, make a way to automatically give sectors resources, and allow us to redraw them. Removing the separate economy isn't the issue; the issue is more in certain details that are fixable.

 

[klopkr]

I just want sectors to be pre decided.

That or mini empires inside your empire like a duke in ck2.

 

[Robotkiller]

The new sector system is micro hell, exponentiated by the inefficiency of the UI (scrolling + unused screen area)

 

[Kain2K]

Rather than bringing back the "tax" system, why not just give the ability to assign sectors a monthly income from your main stockpile? That way, you don't have to manually assign resources, but you have full control over what the sector gets. Also, add in a limit where the sector stops being given resources if they're above a certain threshold.

Why not do both? I certainly can understand why people could have problems with a tax like system. But no one said that there couldn't be a choice.

1. Every resource, up to a limit, of the players choice, (either a percentage or a raw number) is used by the sector. Everything that exceeds the limit is put into the global pool.
   • Pro: The sector has a guaranteed income, that the player can influence
   • Contra: The player can easily get a shortage in certain resources if he sets the values wrong, or the sector doesn't generate enough resources, it may take a while until the sector has enough resources to build something and even longer until the player gets anything
2. The sector gains a certain percentage of the total production
   • Pro: The sector has a guaranteed income, that the player can influence. The player will always gain a given percentage of the produced resources, a shortage isn't a likelhood.
   • Contra: It may take a while until the sector has enough resources to build something
3. Everything that any planet produces goes into the global resource pool. The player chooses how many resources a sector gets on a monthly basis. Possibly with an optional limit. Once this limit is reached, a sector isn't going to get more resources until it uses some.
   • Pro: The sector gets a given number of resources every month, the player has full control over how many resources a sector gets, if the optional cap is reached, the sector no longer gets resources, the sector should start building pretty fast
   • Contra: The player can easily get a shortage in certain resources if he sets the values wrong, or he doesn't generate enough resources

Maybe there are other systems I didn't think of. But UI wise, this could easily be done by radio buttons and checkboxes. Should be pretty basic stuff for a UI programmer, and it should be possible to recycle the code from before 2.2. Maybe there could be an option to set the values global, since this could easily once again become a micromanagement hell if there are to many sectors. But like I said, I don't see why these systems couldn't coexist.

 

[Orphalesion]

They allowed me to leave the administration of most of my empire in the hands of questionable birocrats whilst I did the fun stuff.
Now I have 0 control over where and when my sectors are created. They do nothing in regards to building and resource administration in fact now I have to spend most of my time micro-managing many many planets and distributing resources and doing the stuff which my previously incompetent governers used to do. Yes they were incompetent, I get it, but is this what anyone thinks of as fun? Being a beaten down birocrat in what is supposed to be your own empire.

But for some people managing the planets and economy is part of the "fun stuff". So why should we join your "crusade" (especially since your presentation is pretty obnoxious imho)
I agree that the new sectors could be protioned off better (right now it seems very random, and frequently ugly) but from what I understand you can still assign your beloved "incompetent governors" and allow them to auto-develop their sectors while you do....well whatever you consider "fun stuff".

So imo a return to the old system rather than improving the new one would be absolutely terrible.

 

[AlanC9]

So upon seeing all the negative reaction and the fact that people seem to actually like the micro-managing mess that Stellaris is now I have decided that it would be selfish of me, (being of the minority opinion that the old sectors were better than this mess), to ask for the game to be changed just for the wish of what is a minority of players. As such I will no longer try to convince others of anything.

To put it bluntly, I have asked for a refund of Megacorp, and have uninstalled Stellaris all together. I shall no longer play this game.

Thank you Paradox for 2 years of great space strategy but this is no longer my sort of game. For the rest please enjoy the game and all the best

Kinda silly to uninstall instead of rolling back.

 

[Delthor]

Why not do both? I certainly can understand why people could have problems with a tax like system. But no one said that there couldn't be a choice.

Well, if a sector is only getting a portion of its own income, you can't assign a brand new sector a bunch of extra income, since it starts out very small. Also, if you want a science-focused sector or a food-focused sector to continue building, you need to make mineral generating stuff in that sector and later refactor it. The new planet type system rewards specialization, and I don't want to lose that in sectors.

They went in the right direction with all income going to the player, and the player dolling out resources to sectors. They just need to allow a per month option for giving sectors resources so you don't have to manually assign them, clean up the AI, and fix the sector creation/let us draw them ourselves.

I don't really think sectors are in some horribly broken state. There's just some tweaks that need to be made.

 

[Ek1]

Sectors are unfinished business. I kind of agree that now that their only purpose is to force you to hire a governor. But I also see how they are the foundation for new internal politics mechanics for the next patches. O at least, I personally expect them to build more stuff around them.

One thing though I think it was missed in this patch regarding sectors. PDX made trade being purely a starbase affair while instead it could had been built around sectors: each governor collects trade, potentially retain some of it to fund its own agenda (why not: including anti piracy using its own fleet of lightship) and then send it toward the capital. Trade routes would still be a thing like now, from fringe sectors to the core one. I think the mechanism would be almost identical, there would be no need to have individual system coverage and instead there would be a concept of sector local start port to upgrade. Like 99% identical.

The sectors were great when you wanted to get past the planet limit but othervise just silly. Resources were not shared making micromanaging a must anycase and auto-building was making maybe 70% efficient decisions.
I am no fan of the upkeep for governors that have next to zero impact to my game and economy except in negative way. Case Sisulandia, empire with 40 planets and population of 348 divided in 11 sectors can't afford having more than 6 governors as it would plunge the empire in negative energy credit gain. Leaders make up 1/7th of whole empires energy consumption and kicking out a governors actually increases output.

If we could decided the size of sectors ourselves it would be a step to right direction or if they would even be an option to redistributed them when number of starts controlled by the empire changes.
To balance out the single-sector abuse governors could have a limit how many stars (not planets) they can manage without starting to loose efficiency, experienced leaders could manage bigger slice of the work. Using population as a limiter would also be a way but that would simply make a rigid system with x many gov per y pop that does not in anyway encourage for more clustered, synergized governing.

The leader trait system overhaul wish has risen in this thread too as years ago as leaders are tasteless bonus providers that in some roles have next to none impact to the sector from their traits. In a well developped sector there are two traits that are desired and otherwise they get rerolled, other leaders have couple more usable options. If player spends good deal of his energy reserves (both sides of the monitor) to reroll leaders to get a useful one it should point out that the system needs some love.

Sharing freely the empires resources should not be a problem anycase nor artificially punished. The AI will most likely waste resources as it ain't seeing the big picture or simply sucking. So doublechecking/mircoing still pays off. Some limit would be nice though so the AI assistant wont burn the energy credits that are needed for shroud tripping.

Kinda silly to uninstall instead of rolling back.

All padawans start with tantrums when handling problems, its only later when they learn to find solutions instead of staring the problem.

 

[Sifer2]

I'm surprised this topic has so many downvotes. The fanboys who will defend anything are out in force I guess. The Sector system is easily the most broken thing about this update. The game becomes a massive micromanagement chore once you have more than 10 worlds. The Sector autobuild AI is both bad, and you still have to manually assign them resources constantly which almost defeats the purpose which is to allow you to put part of your Empire on auto pilot so you can focus on something else. If i'm going to have to open up a screen to ctrl+shift a few thousand minerals to a governor I might as well build the building myself. This is also entirely ignoring the current broken assignment that is creating all these one planet sectors.

Basically what it comes down to is Paradox spent 98% of their playtesting time in this update playing Megacorps. The other 2% on Hive Minds. As a result we have stuff like this that made it through. Only small Megacorps are fun to play if you can't automate some of a wide Empire.

 

[Wolfgang I]

All padawans start with tantrums when handling problems, its only later when they learn to find solutions instead of staring the problem.

I for one rolled back to 1.9.1 after a few distant star games but I missed the DLC content which I really liked and some critical bug fixes and unistalled after playing a few reverted games(~100 hours I guess).
I tried the game again with 2.2 but I'm just experimenting now instead of really playing the game with a goal in mind(well and I want the get at least a bit of fun out of the 20 euros I paid for the DLC). I suspect I will uninstall the game again soon unless Paradox fixes the AI.

 

[TheTam]

I feel like we need some EUIV Quickbuilder Tool for Stellaris
That way yiu can manage planets way faster
Above 6 planets I get tired of babysitting new planets, above 10 it feels like work. And dont get me started on conquered planets.
Getting rid of core worlds cap was the right choice and people who want to manage ALL the planets should be able to do so. Sometimes you just want to manage that one special planet yourself
The old system had its flaws but I hoped it would be improved upon instead of just scrapped. A missed opportunity for resource allocation (just decide yourself how much % of each resource a sector keeps and more presets for planet by planet development) and frontier expansion with toggle able colonization and development. I loved that in the late midgame. If monster sectors were the problem they could add admin cap to sectors, with malus on production if they get to big, or maybe they just become disloyal
Sectors could handle even handle trade routes (from sector worlds to sector capital to empire capital) and piracy suppression with their own corvette fleets

As I see sectors as a crucial part of internal politics I really hope they get a third look in the future

 

[artemis667]

I find the micro quite engaging but I can see a point where it'd get tedious. Don't think the new system is that bad in principle, just needs smarter (conservative, to control costs) building AI and an option to automate reasonable distribution of minerals into sectors as needed.

There'll probably be good mods that do the job if Paradox can't get a timely solution in, but it'd be nice if they can get automated sector management back up to 2.1 standards as a priority. The sky isn't falling for me if they can't get it done by Christmas.