HoIIV - Developer Diary 11 - Map & Graphics -[ NO COUNTERS DISCUSSION ]

[Filou]

Some very nice things in there with the combination of map modes, I think I'll like it.

I notice that trees often 'spill' over their neighboring provinces, will there be mixed terrain types or it's still 1 type/province?

Any hints on any new province types to go along the new rivers? Like something in-between mountains and hills maybe.

And now I want to press the "Rotate Box" button to see what comes out

This looks good, and I am excited. For some reason I am a little nervous. I couldn't find any provinces with multiple unit types in them. I am curious about how these will display.

The Stalingrad screenshot shows a INF with a 2 under it, my guess is there are 2 divisions in there.

 

[Tasmosunt]

Like safe-keeper pointed out, whilst re-using the same symbols would be easy for people familiar with HOI3, this game should also appeal to new players who are more likely to realise that a 3D model of an aerodrome is an aerodrome than they are that a few crossed lines represents one.

The old symbols are simpler, thus easier to recognise at a glance.

 

[rutger9]

I grew up playing WWII strategy games. Guess what? Most of them didn't use NATO counters.

One of the biggest titles when I was a kid was Panzer General, which used sprites. In fact I'm having a hard time remembering any of the SSI games that used NATO symbols.

Did HOI1 use NATO symbols? I don't think it did but 2002-3 is a long time ago. HOI2 vanilla didn't use them [EDIT: or did it? at any rate I was never bother to switch and they weren't used in the side-bar], not on-map anyway though there were plenty of mods.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind using them in the game. I just don't get the emotional aspect, especially not the irrational hatred of 3D sprites.

But change is evil, what did change bring to humanity? vaccinations BAH thats just the work of the devil, graphics bah the older the better!

 

[alpermat]

In the first "Weather" picture (winter_1.JPG) there is a lot of snow on Caucasus mountains of Soviet Union but - as far as I understand - not snow at all on Eastern Turkish mountains. Is this because the player doesn't have visibility of Turkey (fog of war) or something else (Eastern Turkey is quite snowy AFAIK)?

If it is fog of war, I feel it does not make sense - though I might be wrong.

 

[Roggle_Dorn]

You seem to have missed the fact that you are getting NATO counters - you are not forced to use models instead of NATO counters, you get both. AFAIK the counters in HOI3 actually used similar resources to the sprites (at least a dev once made statements to this effect), so there is no major saving in resources.

Except that, unfortunately, it seems as if there will not be an option to replace models.

As FOARP said what you see under the units we call counters. They are much better than showing stacks of hoi3 style counters because they can show a lot more information easily.

The existing "counters" but with NATO symbols will not be any better. As has been clearly articulated multiple times what I and other want is the REPLACEMENT of models with counters like in HOI3. Optionally of course.
The suggestion that a 3d model is as easy to make as a 2d NATO counter is laughable.

 

[podcat]

podcat,

You may have missed my earlier post with the speed posts are being made so I will try again.

And to fallow up on EPICCCP's question, what happens when I click on a province? Will an info box appear with province detail like name, image & other province stats?

you get a selection screen for the state with a sub selection for province relative stuff (terrain, province buildings etc)

 

[FOARP]

But change is evil, what did change bring to humanity? vaccinations BAH thats just the work of the devil, graphics bah the older the better!

:rofl:

It's the fact that NATO symbols didn't even exist during WW2 that really gets me. The hyper-realism that some people seem to derive from using NATO symbols is an illusion. Sure, they're useful, and I get the immersion aspect, but hating on 3-D sprites just seems silly.

 

[Roggle_Dorn]

But change is evil, what did change bring to humanity? vaccinations BAH thats just the work of the devil, graphics bah the older the better!

Yes, we are all upset for no other reason than it is different. You have found us out. How dare they do anything different? Everyone knows different and new is automatically better, and we hate things improving.

In case you haven't noticed, that was sarcasm. No one is upset simply because it is different, we are upset because the old, better way, has been removed.

 

[Roggle_Dorn]

:rofl:

It's the fact that NATO symbols didn't even exist during WW2 that really gets me. The hyper-realism that some people seem to derive from using NATO symbols is an illusion. Sure, they're useful, and I get the immersion aspect, but hating on 3-D sprites just seems silly.

I would prefer Wermacht symbols, as silly as they look, to models. Models are simply a horrible way to represent units in this sort of game.
Edit: I apologize for double posting, is it possible to delete a post so I can consolidate them?

 

[FOARP]

Except that, unfortunately, it seems as if there will not be an option to replace models.

The existing "counters" but with NATO symbols will not be any better. As has been clearly articulated multiple times what I and other want is the REPLACEMENT of models with counters like in HOI3. Optionally of course.

Which just takes me back to my original point - you don't seem to want NATO symbols, since you don't seem to be satisfied that they will be in-game. Instead, you want an absence of 3D models. Why?

 

[Roggle_Dorn]

Which just takes me back to my original point - you don't seem to want NATO symbols, since you don't seem to be satisfied that they will be in-game. Instead, you want an absence of 3D models. Why?

You have been answered multiple times, and I will not do it again.

 

[dizzle3]

Anybody else wondering what the difference between the little plane symbols and the little windsock symbols is on the first screenshot? Empty/full airbases? Small/large airbases? Airfields with/without repair ability?

Edit: and the major naval bases having a green ring around them? Places you can deploy new units perhaps?

 

[FOARP]

You have been answered multiple times, and I will not do it again.

Maybe you could point me to where you have done this. Again, you will have NATO symbols on-map. Why isn't this satisfactory?

 

[Holy.Death]

NATO counters...? I feel like I am going to end up with using models after all. I am not really interested in using NATO counters, I hoped that PX will use less abstract and crude symbols.

 

[illathid]

Which just takes me back to my original point - you don't seem to want NATO symbols, since you don't seem to be satisfied that they will be in-game. Instead, you want an absence of 3D models. Why?

I think his problem is that he feels the resource being used to develop 3d models could be better used elsewhere in the project. However, this view kinda silly as Paradox has dedicated unit artists that they'll need to pay regardless of whether they are working on HoI4 or not.

EDIT:

NATO counters...? I feel like I am going to end up with using models after all. I am not really interested in using NATO counters, I hoped that PX will use less abstract and crude symbols.

You can see the non-abstract symbols on the map. Helmets for infantry, etc.

 

[ikeokp]

But will we get Winter/Desert camouflage models? I think it is necessary now since we have all these beautiful seasons portrayed!

 

[Riekopo]

Can you see the terrain that's under fog of war?

 

[zeekater]

It seems you guys found a good way to represent weather on the map without having to switch mapmodes, good job!

Will we be able to see infrastructure from a glance as well? In the close-up screenshot of North-Africa it doesn't really show.

 

[Kadanz]

It really saddens me that so much effort has been put into something so useless that is also not even good at what it hopes to accomplish.
The map looks as horrible as any other 3d paradox map, the information conveyed is the same, and the resources used to make it a waste.
Imagine if all the time spent on this travesty were instead used to make an actually good looking 2d map, or perhaps a globe with less detail.

I think you're in the wrong forum. HoI 2 is a little bit down.

 

[Filou]

Anybody else wondering what the difference between the little plane symbols and the little windsock symbols is on the first screenshot? Empty/full airbases? Small/large airbases? Airfields with/without repair ability?

Edit: and the major naval bases having a green ring around them? Places you can deploy new units perhaps?

My guess is empty airbases vs. those with planes present.
Similarly the green ring seems to indicate ships present in the naval base: We can see boats icon in East-Prussia, but not along the Baltic Coast. The icon near Denmark covers both Kiel and the North Sea ports at this level of zoom.