HoIIV - Developer Diary 11 - Map & Graphics -[ NO COUNTERS DISCUSSION ]

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Modestus

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I suggest you read his posting history, He is rude and obnoxious when drunk though he does apologize.

No denying that if I post when under the weather I can be a little flowery with my words but in my defence I nearly always talk about only the game something that other people don’t even when they are sober.
 

Axe99

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Put it this way if every day at 12.00 pm it rained for eight hours would it benefit the game that the map would show that rain I would argue that no it would not and it would be a waste of time however if it rained randomly then it would be of benefit.

Don't forget that night and day start at different times in different places and these times change with the seasons. If the impact of the initial assault has an ongoing impact on the combat (which it can IRL, although I've no idea if this is the case in HoI4), then it could well be important and good to know. Say, for example, an assault launches at night causes terrible org in the attack side (not unrealistic), then it could be handy to start during the day. Depends a bit on the combat mechanics, which we don't know a heap about so far. Less than one week to a DD, so we may know more soon :).
 

misterbean

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There is a reason why most major operations started just before dawn. The Invasions of Poland, Low Countries, SU, D-Day. Those are just a couple of examples I can think of.
 

Cardus

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Don't forget that night and day start at different times in different places and these times change with the seasons. If the impact of the initial assault has an ongoing impact on the combat (which it can IRL, although I've no idea if this is the case in HoI4), then it could well be important and good to know. Say, for example, an assault launches at night causes terrible org in the attack side (not unrealistic), then it could be handy to start during the day. Depends a bit on the combat mechanics, which we don't know a heap about so far. Less than one week to a DD, so we may know more soon :).
I'm curious about latitudes as sometimes there is light at midnight and there is no light at midday.
 

misterbean

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I'm curious about latitudes as sometimes there is light at midnight and there is no light at midday.

Which leads to the question: will there be time zones? In other words, when you're playing as China or Japan, will the sun rise at 6 in the morning, instead of the middle of the day?
 

uglyduckling81

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They will do the day and night cycle the same way xenonauts handles it. It basically looks like a radio wave that moves accross the global map. On one side of the line is day and the other night. It works well and is fairly accurate to real world. I doubt they would bother with simulating the changing length of days because as others have said it's just that important of a mechanic. I think it just helps the immersion of the game by at least showing it. As long as it isn't done over the top and just adds a nice aesthetic I'm all for it.
 

Fawr

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Which leads to the question: will there be time zones? In other words, when you're playing as China or Japan, will the sun rise at 6 in the morning, instead of the middle of the day?

That was in HOI3. The "game time" was either GMT or Zulu time and so if you wanted to start an attack on a pacific island then dawn is around 6pm and dusk is 6am.
 

safe-keeper

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Which leads to the question: will there be time zones? In other words, when you're playing as China or Japan, will the sun rise at 6 in the morning, instead of the middle of the day?
It would be nice if the game clock displayed the local time at your capital, rather than in Europe.
 

potski

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It would be nice if the game clock displayed the local time at your capital, rather than in Europe.

Perhaps, though it might be awkward in MP. Not impossible, but an added complication.

And a local time is only really a substitute for some sort of handy display if you are a small country, or operate only in one part of the world. The complications with time zones was seen very heavily with the attacks of Japan in Dec 1941, and the timing of the DoW. Dawn in Hawaii is a few hours before the Philippines, which was before dawn in Malaysia.

For SOV, USA and UK, the problems are even wider. So unless you are very familiar with the time zones across the world, then as the UK knowing when dawn occurs in Burma for instance is not easy to even guess from the game time (which I believe is GMT).

The operation of the sine wave moving across the globe where the peaks and troughs do not reach the poles, should mean that areas in the far north could be in constant darkness during winter and in constant daylight during summer. Again understanding that the length of daytime can change through the year, so dawn in summer is significantly earlier in Northern Europe in summer than it is in winter, but this effect is less pronounced near the poles.

This is why they had the picture of the day/night cycle on screen constantly in HOI3 on the mini-map, to help people understand this.

Whether the feature is too "in your face" changing the look of the whole map, instead of just the mini-map, is another question. But the devs said it would be fade out if you are running at higher speeds.

But at slow speeds if you see bombers carrying out night raids and returning to base in the morning, that's pretty cool.
 
Last edited:

Porkman

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It would be nice if the game clock displayed the local time at your capital, rather than in Europe.

Someone needs to watch this...

[video=youtube;-5wpm-gesOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY[/video]
 

Banquet

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Although the map looks very pretty and IMHO would be fine for a EUIV or previous era game, it does not look in keeping with a WWII era combat game. The 3d models also look toy like to me. I'm fine with 3d models on roughly appropriately scaled terrain (combat mission, even steel panthers, etc) but seeing them on such a exaggerated 3d map of the world make the game look more like Age or Empires than a serious attempt at simulating WWII. I'm keeping my options open but this is the first Paradox game I might not buy since EU1 and I'm very surprised to be of this mind because HOI has been my favourite game series of all that Paradox make. I feel I owe it to Paradox as one of my most-liked game devs to take the time to come here and express this opinion although I obviously realise it won't affect their decision making. Luckily, there are other serious strategic WWII games including one just released that still cater for the 'grog' gamer. I hope Paradox doesn't leave that part of their fan-base behind though.
 

Darkrenown

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Don't forget that night and day start at different times in different places and these times change with the seasons. If the impact of the initial assault has an ongoing impact on the combat (which it can IRL, although I've no idea if this is the case in HoI4), then it could well be important and good to know. Say, for example, an assault launches at night causes terrible org in the attack side (not unrealistic), then it could be handy to start during the day. Depends a bit on the combat mechanics, which we don't know a heap about so far. Less than one week to a DD, so we may know more soon :).

It can also confuse people when missions set to day/night only appear to be going off at the wrong times according to the main time display.

Anyway, this is just one of those things people apparently cannot agree on. Rather than getting annoyed at each other, just accept people have differing tastes. If those people happen to post the same thing over and over again all the time, the forum has an ignore feature which will ensure your peace of mind.
 

potski

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Someone needs to watch this...

[video=youtube;-5wpm-gesOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY[/video]

This is hilarious and so right. Our department has teams providing support to customers in:

- Brazil (southern hemisphere, currently summer, different time zones in different parts of the country)
- UK (northern, winter with daylight savings, GMT)
- Norway (northern, winter, but CET)
- India (equatorial, no daylight savings)
- KL (equatorial, no daylight savings)

For nearly six months of the year Brazil is -4 hours from UK, nearly six months -2. But there are a couple of weeks -3 because they change their clocks at a different time to UK, and in the opposite direction.

I had to script our telephony systems to handle this.
 

Filou

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I don't know whether it's time-zones meddling or he borrowed Svip time-mahcine, but Darkrenown somehow is already in 2015 with his new badge...
pdx_order.png


:eek:hmy:
 

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Someone needs to watch this...

[video=youtube;-5wpm-gesOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY[/video]
Not quite sure how that's a reply to what I said. Are you referring to how it would be confusing in MP games? Easy solution: disable it in MP games, and just have every player use Zulu time.
 

potski

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Not quite sure how that's a reply to what I said. Are you referring to how it would be confusing in MP games? Easy solution: disable it in MP games, and just have every player use Zulu time.

I think because having local time in the capital is not even easy. London has daylight savings, so the clocks change twice during the year. But to be historic:

In 1940, during the Second World War, the clocks in Britain were not put back by an hour at the end of Summer Time. In subsequent years, clocks continued to be advanced by one hour each spring and put back by an hour each autumn until July 1945. During these summers, therefore, Britain was two hours ahead of GMT and operating on British Double Summer Time (BDST). The clocks were brought back in line with GMT at the end of summer in 1945

If you handle this, you still have the problem that the time in London is not the same as that in Kingstown, Cairo, Delhi or Singapore, so the game clock still doesn't help much.
 
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