HoIIV - Developer Diary 11 - Map & Graphics -[ NO COUNTERS DISCUSSION ]

[Praetori]

Only when the Cities were actually Threatend by enemy airforce most of the time.
The first Bombardment of Berlin e.g. started with the lights lit b.c. the Germans didnt expect the Brits flying that far allready.
If they actuall implement the lights turning off dynamically this woudl be great

Would be awesome if the lights flicker and go out whenever a hostile bombing mission is active in the region. After all they already have these little animated airplanes flying around representing the air battles fought.

 

[Holy.Death]

FOW will be less dense when zoomed in but they are still playing with it to stop it obscuring during plans.

That's good to know. I was worried about this when I saw screenshots with FoW.

 

[Kensai7]

This looks crazy beautiful!

 

[Gamer_1745]

I have been thinking a lot about this, as one posted Maps 'That's underwhelming to say the least', DD and what it brings up. I now there are 2 different interest groups 1. Those that only care how the standard game works, looks & feels. and 2. Those that see this as a basis for modding the WWII strategic game they want. I am firmly in the second group.

My Question:'what happens when I click on a province? Will an info box appear with province detail like name, image & other province stats?'
Reply:

you get a selection screen for the state with a sub selection for province relative stuff (terrain, province buildings etc)

Thank you for this reply and I have been thinking bout it. From the images posted I think I can see the difference between province borders & state borders.
1. I presume that each 'state' will have a name even if not on the map?
2. Will the 'state' have an image (something like in HoI3)?
3. That can be customized?

4. Can the map be modded to get rid of the provinces and only have the states?
5. And then can the 'states' be modded to the size & placement of the former provinces?

This would allow, effectively, each former province to have an image & name as a 'state'.


Yes, I have been watching to see how best to get my questions answered, make it easy to answer!

 

[Mackus]

Ewww.
This game is Windows 8 of Europa Universalis.
A lot of effort has been into useless stuff that makes it harder for map to convey information it means to convey. Valiant, courageous effort, true, but no less useless.
Realistic? Please. Were there any satellites in 1940s that could've taken that pictures? No? I though so.
This isn't a map anymore. Its a monument to "we can make shiner stuff!". And I mean this quite literally. Why else put that reflection of sun in the middle of Mediterranean? Or maybe they'll release a Reflection DLC that links game to your webcam, so reflection of your face appears in the ocean!?
Why map can't be... a map? You know, like a map would look like. Even Eu3 "map dents thingies" were less annoying, because they at least made the map look more like a real map.
And why this awful hybrid of terrain/political map? I'll let you on a secret: People don't play in your "pretty and beautiful" terrain map, because the bright contrast tires their eyes, and most importantly its useless to them. If you layed down on the trees, city sprawl and such, perhaps it would be easier to make map that actually conveys information player needs. You've made a lot of effort to create something that will at best work almost as well as any map modes you mashed together to create it. Ever used weather map in Darkest Hour? Then you know what is right thing to do.

 

[unc15]

Ewww.
This game is Windows 8 of Europa Universalis.
A lot of effort has been into useless stuff that makes it harder for map to convey information it means to convey. Valiant, courageous effort, true, but no less useless.
Realistic? Please. Were there any satellites in 1940s that could've taken that pictures? No? I though so.
This isn't a map anymore. Its a monument to "we can make shiner stuff!". And I mean this quite literally. Why else put that reflection of sun in the middle of Mediterranean? Or maybe they'll release a Reflection DLC that links game to your webcam, so reflection of your face appears in the ocean!?
Why map can't be... a map? You know, like a map would look like. Even Eu3 "map dents thingies" were less annoying, because they at least made the map look more like a real map.
And why this awful hybrid of terrain/political map? I'll let you on a secret: People don't play in your "pretty and beautiful" terrain map, because the bright contrast tires their eyes, and most importantly its useless to them. If you layed down on the trees, city sprawl and such, perhaps it would be easier to make map that actually conveys information player needs. You've made a lot of effort to create something that will at best work almost as well as any map modes you mashed together to create it. Ever used weather map in Darkest Hour? Then you know what is right thing to do.

Pretty much.

 

[safe-keeper]

Read the thread. Everything you just said has been responded to.

 

[podcat]

Thank you for this reply and I have been thinking bout it. From the images posted I think I can see the difference between province borders & state borders.
1. I presume that each 'state' will have a name even if not on the map?
2. Will the 'state' have an image (something like in HoI3)?
3. That can be customized?

4. Can the map be modded to get rid of the provinces and only have the states?
5. And then can the 'states' be modded to the size & placement of the former provinces?

This would allow, effectively, each former province to have an image & name as a 'state'.

1. state names are on the map and yes (as are strategic area names and such)
2. there are terrain/weather pictures. you could expand it in a mod to have unique pictures for some areas I believe
3. should be doable yes
4. yes. but it would be a terrible choice for gameplay and interface. Everything is designed around state numbers not being 10k+ so they can actually be shown in lists and such
5. yes

Yes, I have been watching to see how best to get my questions answered, make it easy to answer!

yes thanks, its much easier when numbered

 

[Landsturmamrika]

This looks outstanding. Good work Paradox!

 

[jodirola]

Ewww.
This game is Windows 8 of Europa Universalis.
A lot of effort has been into useless stuff that makes it harder for map to convey information it means to convey. Valiant, courageous effort, true, but no less useless.
Realistic? Please. Were there any satellites in 1940s that could've taken that pictures? No? I though so.
This isn't a map anymore. Its a monument to "we can make shiner stuff!". And I mean this quite literally. Why else put that reflection of sun in the middle of Mediterranean? Or maybe they'll release a Reflection DLC that links game to your webcam, so reflection of your face appears in the ocean!?
Why map can't be... a map? You know, like a map would look like. Even Eu3 "map dents thingies" were less annoying, because they at least made the map look more like a real map.
And why this awful hybrid of terrain/political map? I'll let you on a secret: People don't play in your "pretty and beautiful" terrain map, because the bright contrast tires their eyes, and most importantly its useless to them. If you layed down on the trees, city sprawl and such, perhaps it would be easier to make map that actually conveys information player needs. You've made a lot of effort to create something that will at best work almost as well as any map modes you mashed together to create it. Ever used weather map in Darkest Hour? Then you know what is right thing to do.

+1

 

[PlacidDragon]

Ewww.
This game is Windows 8 of Europa Universalis.
A lot of effort has been into useless stuff that makes it harder for map to convey information it means to convey. Valiant, courageous effort, true, but no less useless.
Realistic? Please. Were there any satellites in 1940s that could've taken that pictures? No? I though so.
This isn't a map anymore. Its a monument to "we can make shiner stuff!". And I mean this quite literally. Why else put that reflection of sun in the middle of Mediterranean? Or maybe they'll release a Reflection DLC that links game to your webcam, so reflection of your face appears in the ocean!?
Why map can't be... a map? You know, like a map would look like. Even Eu3 "map dents thingies" were less annoying, because they at least made the map look more like a real map.
And why this awful hybrid of terrain/political map? I'll let you on a secret: People don't play in your "pretty and beautiful" terrain map, because the bright contrast tires their eyes, and most importantly its useless to them. If you layed down on the trees, city sprawl and such, perhaps it would be easier to make map that actually conveys information player needs. You've made a lot of effort to create something that will at best work almost as well as any map modes you mashed together to create it. Ever used weather map in Darkest Hour? Then you know what is right thing to do.

Have to agree with this.

Personally, i use the political map (in all of the Pdox games, EU, HoI, CK, Vicky, whatever), because i HAVE NO INTEREST in seeing the graphics. I honestly couldn't care less, and if forced upon me, it would be a detriment rather than an enhancement. If you on top of that range among the idiots who love bloom, lens flares, reflections and all of that jazz, it doesn't just become a detriment, it would become downright painful to watch for hours on end.

 

[Olfert Fischer]

...Extremely important to know when you get penalties or not. btw we now have two sizes of rivers with different penalties to make areas play differently. ....
....
I love you too

Wow! I like it - and if you let me play it soon I just might love it Can't you just feel the groovy vibes coming from podcat...?

 

[SpanglishEmpire]

This is getting pathetic, This map and the new graphics are a brilliant advance for the HOI series.

There is a minority here that won't be happy until the game is represented by a map scratched out in the mud with a stick and pebbles representing their army for immersion.....

 

[seeds24]

I don't know why some people are so upset about the shiny graphics. It must be the same kind of players who play with the strategic view in Civ 5. the devs have to get it right, of course, make everything understable at a glance.

 

[NukePL91]

I don't know why some people are so upset about the shiny graphics.

I don't know why some people are so upset about different opinions of others. Is it so hard to accept that somebody doesn't like new graphic and want to express opinion about that?

 

[Soapy Frog]

This is getting pathetic, This map and the new graphics are a brilliant advance for the HOI series.

There is a minority here that won't be happy until the game is represented by a map scratched out in the mud with a stick and pebbles representing their army for immersion.....

I think that's unfair. I think most of us just want to be able to see what is going on. There is a balance between beauty and utility that should be struck. I am willing to reserve judgement but I prefer clear icons (be they counters or whatever) to small 3d models so that i can tell at a glance what is going on.

 

[PlacidDragon]

This is getting pathetic, This map and the new graphics are a brilliant advance for the HOI series.

There is a minority here that won't be happy until the game is represented by a map scratched out in the mud with a stick and pebbles representing their army for immersion.....

I don't know why some people are so upset about the shiny graphics. It must be the same kind of players who play with the strategic view in Civ 5. the devs have to get it right, of course, make everything understable at a glance.

You guys are completely missing the point.. the graphics isn't the issue as such.... hell, make it prettier than an FPS, i dont care.. however, i do care very much when they go with "now we can have our cake and eat it too".. which seems to translate into "now we'll force you to look at the graphics if you want to or not". We'll see all the pretty weather effects, the gentle swaying of the trees, the relaxing glint of a river, and so on..

Like the day/night cycle, etc. This is removal of choice, which in 99.9 percent of all instances, is a bad thing

 

[safe-keeper]

You're forced to look at pretty graphics ? My heart bleeds for you.

I don't know why some people are so upset about different opinions of others.

None of us do. We have a problem with you spamming said opinion for litterally hundreds of posts, in all kinds of different threads, like spoiled children whose parents won't buy them candy bars in the supermarket. What if it was the other way around? You had your will, and those who disagreed cried about it, often in a very immature and disrespectful manner, for hundreds of posts, derailing every thread remotely related to said feature.

Is this really that difficult to understand? I mean, wouldn't you too be even slightly annoyed after the 500th post?

I think that's unfair. I think most of us just want to be able to see what is going on. There is a balance between beauty and utility that should be struck. I am willing to reserve judgement but I prefer clear icons (be they counters or whatever) to small 3d models so that i can tell at a glance what is going on.

You have counters that let you know at a vlgance whatrs going... nevermindigiveup.

 

[Qemarar]

Yall people are getting way too worked up over something so nice looking. I don't understand the claim about how, "it doesn't look like a map" because it's not supposed to be just a map, it's suppose to be a representation of the world in WWII. Real maps don't have sprites walking over them or 3D buildings on them, but no one complains about that because it suits the gameplay. The same the day/night cycle suits gameplay.

 

[Calders]

None of us do. We have a problem with you spamming said opinion for literally hundreds of posts, in all kinds of different threads, like spoiled children whose parents won't buy them candy bars in the supermarket. What if it was the other way around? You had your will, and those who disagreed cried about it, often in a very immature and disrespectful manner, for hundreds of posts, derailing every thread remotely related to said feature.

This is a false analogy, I don't think people are arguing that the 3d models etc should be removed from the game we are asking for the additional option of a more utilitarian set of graphics, which I agree is highly unusual for a computer game but the HOI series has done it previously. For me its not that I don't like the pretty... I do but I want something that is pretty and has utility at its heart, something clean of clutter. Something more like this...



Which is not to say this still doesn't have issues... hills are not very distinct and the counters can end up covering up the airbase sign.... its more an example of a direction.