HoIIV - Developer Diary 11 - Map & Graphics -[ NO COUNTERS DISCUSSION ]

[Modestus]

 

[safe-keeper]

Just looking at the screenshots again, and gods, that desert shot looks amazing! Seriously looking forward to playing this so much!

 

[safe-keeper]

Well if HoI4 has a structure like CK2 & you really hate models, like Modestus does, you may be able to re-texture all the models with a transparent texture. Boom, no models.

Or just set the graphics to size zero so they're invisible, replace them with dummy invisible models, and the list goes on. Easiest thing in the world to mod. So again, mountains out of molehills.

 

[No idea]

How can we tell the difference between mountains and hills? Looking at the screenshots Sometimes it is obvious, but some other times isnt.

 

[SpanglishEmpire]

This looks really good.

As for cities lighting up at night time I have only one thing to say "Put that light out!"

(From an old English comedy for those too young or not from the UK)

 

[No idea]

I am ready to pay for DLC with 2D map, and counters only (without any models at all)!
I am not against models totaly, but I would like to have an option to enable counters only, like in hoi3 or in hoi2.
It is bad when people who did not played hoi games very often starting to make this game and changing visual (and gameplay) content so drastically in EU style.
I realy hope that we will have option to disable models and enable counters that will be informative and schematic.
Small details create main impression.

My impression (from Podcats words) is that we will be able to play with counters only if we want. What makes you think different?

 

[1666846464]

Speaking of graphics are you going to finally stop including the Hammer and Sickle in your games? I think it's in fairly poor taste to allow the display of such a symbol of hatred and mass murder.

 

[Roggle_Dorn]

My impression (from Podcats words) is that we will be able to play with counters only if we want. What makes you think different?

see

what you see under the units we call counters. They are much better than showing stacks of hoi3 style counters because they can show a lot more information easily

 

[PnGuin]

I am ready to pay for DLC with 2D map, and counters only (without any models at all)!
I am not against models totaly, but I would like to have an option to enable counters only, like in hoi3 or in hoi2.
It is bad when people who did not played hoi games very often starting to make this game and changing visual (and gameplay) content so drastically in EU style.
I realy hope that we will have option to disable models and enable counters that will be informative and schematic.
Small details create main impression.

+1

 

[No idea]

Like safe-keeper pointed out, whilst re-using the same symbols would be easy for people familiar with HOI3, this game should also appeal to new players who are more likely to realise that a 3D model of an aerodrome is an aerodrome than they are that a few crossed lines represents one.

Man, i dont think anybody in this world would mistake the symbol of an airport or a port for something else. In fact, it is easier to mistake a 3d airport for a factory than the symbol of a port (the old good anchor) for something else.

 

[Snow Wolf]

I think whoever designed this should get a raise.
But the question is, will it blend [with the hearts of iron series]?
and please, stop moaning about the lack of NATO counters, it's getting ridiculous now imo

 

[No idea]

see

Ummmm... Not sure if that means what you say it means. After that Podcat said we would get counters. Frankly, if the idea of counters is simply changing the little helmet for a little nato counter, hut still having the large 3d model, then we have a big problem. I would feel cheated¡

 

[illathid]

Or just set the graphics to size zero so they're invisible, replace them with dummy invisible models, and the list goes on. Easiest thing in the world to mod. So again, mountains out of molehills.

Yeah, although Modestus has a point about the counters possibly being offset from center. Would still get rid of the airfields, cities, etc. he doesn't like.

 

[No idea]

I assume that's what they're saying. What I don't get is where the problem with this is - you get NATO symbols, which is what people are asking for. What's wrong with that set-up?

For me it is a big problem because i hate sprites in a ww II game. And that leaving apart the fact that counters can give far more info than any model. That is why all armies since almost napoleonic times use counters to represent units on a map and not 3d models.

 

[illathid]

For me it is a big problem because i hate sprites in a ww II game.

That's a valid preference.

...And that leaving apart the fact that counters can give far more info than any model. That is why all armies since almost napoleonic times use counters to represent units on a map and not 3d models.

Yeah but you can now get all that information and a pretty model. In fact, by having the model it's possible you could have even more information than with just the counter. You'll be able to see if the enemy armor divisions have Panzer IVs or Panthers, which is something you didn't get with just the counters in HoI3 (at least in vanilla).

 

[No idea]

For me personally it ruins the feel of an operational to grand strategical wargame like HoI, I associate sprites with tactical wargaming or something like toy soldiers.
I want to feel like Eisenhower sitting over a map of Europe, not a kid in a sandbox. I even always enabled counter in Vicky 1 and would do so in any Paradox game given the possibility.
For wargamer and students of military history it's the default mode of visualising the deployment and movements of military formations, at least on an strategical level, when done right they also convey more information than the current info-boxes (although they already weren't used to their full potential in HoI2-3).

I have no problem with having sprites in the game, and I don't see why people who like to use sprites should have a problem with having an option for counter only support to make both sides happy.

100% agree

 

[FOARP]

Considering that for the most part they were never province names (or based on historical boundaries) but were instead named for the largest city/town/village in the area, makes this a non-issue for me.

Me too. At best they served to add flavour when you got reports from province X, though those reports themselves were more than a bit spammy.

For me it is a big problem because i hate sprites in a ww II game. And that leaving apart the fact that counters can give far more info than any model. That is why all armies since almost napoleonic times use counters to represent units on a map and not 3d models.

1) Actually sprites give you loads of information at-a-glance. Look at a map from Panzer General (or modern-day Panzer Corps) - you can the unit strength, the type of unit, the type of weapons it has, and the direction it faces in. NATO counters can only show you the COC level and the type.

2)You do know that sand-tables and scale-models were pretty much standard for use in planning and training in every 20th-century army, right?

 

[telesien]

No counters? That map? Removed - Had a dad

Playing HoI it's suppose to feel like you're a general in a bunker looking at a map. Now it feels like a casual rollercoaster (which is probably exactly what you were aiming for, to sell more copies)

I like how everyone knows what HoI is supposed to be about, except the developers making it

HoI never looked remotely like you being a general in a bunker looking at a map. It always looked like computer game, where you hover over the globe. Simplified world, but never a military map. If this is your idea of WW2 game, there are dozens of games like that where you look at what looks map and shuffle around what feels like physical representation of unit on that map.

 

[Feuerpfote]

w/e I'm gonna use counters anyway.

 

[Beagá]

It´s obvious there will be counters. Stop being annoying, people.