HOI4 Torch 1.3.3 patch [checksum: 2dd2]

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Were those mods really recently updated though? That they aren't marked as unsupported doesn't mean much since modders can specify in the mod files that version 1.3.* is supported. Which means that 1.3.0, 1.3.1, 1.3.2, 1.3.3 etc are supported even though it very well might never have been tested with (for example) version 1.3.3. In fact if it wasn't updated within the last 40 (?) hours it can't have been tested with version 1.3.3; or at least only with a beta version of 1.3.3.
1 day has passed and it still crashes at the same point. I guess I'll give the modders another 24 hours to update, I believe they will be done tomorrow, since it Always worked when earlier update to the game came, this is my first time having trouble with the game crashing, it has never happened before.
But yeah, Thanks for helping btw.

Thx,
Sharcruiser
 
Yes, it's an odd thing that the mechanism that looks so promising for surface and air-surface combat is ends up producing some weird effects in the U-Boat war. My own preference would be for convoy raiding to be abstracted off-map, so to speak, so it didn't require resorting to the ship-combat mechanism. There's really no reason why that part of the naval war has to be resolved identically with other kinds of ship-to-ship combat. That might also make it easier to account for the effect of convoy escorts. If you assign 6 DDs to escort duty over 3 sea zones, that would give you x% effectiveness in the combat resolution routine, and if they're spread over 4 zones that decreases the effectiveness by a given amount. Something like that.

The thing about on-map convoy battles (which isn't a bad approach, I just haven't settled in my mind yet which I think's better - and even if I did, I might just be off my face :)) is that if the game can get subs right, then the same system should (in theory) work fairly well for either an attack on a convoy, or sinking Eagle during Pedestal. An off-map system may make it difficult for subs to intervene in surface battles. For just commerce warfare alone, though, an off-map system would definitely make it easier to balance all of the various factors (although it would potentially take away from the drama of having big, multi-day convoy battles, noting that the current system hasn't got this right yet either). I think you've got a lot of good ideas btw, apologies if I sound gruff, head fuzzy and affecting my expression (at the moment, it's either slightly blunt, or in song o_O).

1 day has passed and it still crashes at the same point. I guess I'll give the modders another 24 hours to update, I believe they will be done tomorrow, since it Always worked when earlier update to the game came, this is my first time having trouble with the game crashing, it has never happened before.
But yeah, Thanks for helping btw.

Thx,
Sharcruiser

It'll depend a lot on the modders as well as the timing of the release (for example, if the key modders are travelling or have family or work commitments over this weekend/the coming week, that'll make updating harder). Sometimes they'll post in the 'conversation thread' on Steam and provide some indication of when an update might happen there, and if the mod has a thread in the modding forums here, they might also post there. The larger the mod, the longer it will take to update, is a good general rule of thumb.
 
- Now factories receive penalty for each next lacking resource across multiple lines rather than max out at 80% by line

this change killed minor nations for me mine had 50 factories but due to lack of resources only about 20 of them would build anything.

Surely if you have fifty factories you can afford to spend some of them importing resources. Resource requirements are not really supposed to be ignorable.
 
Yes, it's an odd thing that the mechanism that looks so promising for surface and air-surface combat is ends up producing some weird effects in the U-Boat war. My own preference would be for convoy raiding to be abstracted off-map, so to speak, so it didn't require resorting to the ship-combat mechanism. There's really no reason why that part of the naval war has to be resolved identically with other kinds of ship-to-ship combat. That might also make it easier to account for the effect of convoy escorts. If you assign 6 DDs to escort duty over 3 sea zones, that would give you x% effectiveness in the combat resolution routine, and if they're spread over 4 zones that decreases the effectiveness by a given amount. Something like that.

I do see what you mean and could easily agree with you being more into land combat my self than naval, and it could be and easy fix to the convoy raiding. Though would it be fair on those that love naval combat, as I can see when Paradox get convoy raiding right this being a big part of naval strategy for those that love the naval side of things.
Plus in my opinion i think there is enough abstracting in Hearts of Iron IV with out adding to it.
 
How do I Change my version

Patches are automatically downloaded via Steam. If you want to roll back to an earlier patch, right-click (or left, but I think right) on HoI4 in your game library, then select Betas (I think) and there should be a drop-down menu with a bunch of older builds if you want to continue with an old save.
 
The thing about on-map convoy battles (which isn't a bad approach, I just haven't settled in my mind yet which I think's better - and even if I did, I might just be off my face :)) is that if the game can get subs right, then the same system should (in theory) work fairly well for either an attack on a convoy, or sinking Eagle during Pedestal. An off-map system may make it difficult for subs to intervene in surface battles. For just commerce warfare alone, though, an off-map system would definitely make it easier to balance all of the various factors (although it would potentially take away from the drama of having big, multi-day convoy battles, noting that the current system hasn't got this right yet either). I think you've got a lot of good ideas btw, apologies if I sound gruff, head fuzzy and affecting my expression (at the moment, it's either slightly blunt, or in song o_O).
One reason for suggesting that convoy battles be handled differently is their frequency and the comparative unimportance of the outcome of individual confrontations. For me, I would be satisfied to receive a weekly report stating that so many convoys had been sunk, X% of resources interdicted, Y enemy subs sunk, etc. But I certainly agree with you that that shouldn't be a reason to remove subs from on-map actions completely. So if that makes the separate handling of convoy-elated actions too complicated, so be it. Another brilliant idea goes into the dustbin of gaming history! :D
 
One reason for suggesting that convoy battles be handled differently is their frequency and the comparative unimportance of the outcome of individual confrontations. For me, I would be satisfied to receive a weekly report stating that so many convoys had been sunk, X% of resources interdicted, Y enemy subs sunk, etc. But I certainly agree with you that that shouldn't be a reason to remove subs from on-map actions completely. So if that makes the separate handling of convoy-elated actions too complicated, so be it. Another brilliant idea goes into the dustbin of gaming history! :D

You never know - only the devs know what they have in mind for subs :).
 
I have been playing around some more with the submarines, and I have to say that it has not gone at all well. Even when playing as Germany I pre-position my Type II U-Boot fleets at various spots around the Atlantic before the war begins, the moment they begin to get anywhere near some convoys they get hammered.

Wasn't there an exported modifier somewhere that you could use to reduce their visibility? Maybe that was in an earlier version of the game. One begins to lose track after so many years . . . .

Anyway, one thing I am tempted to do is to tweak the stats of the ships and maybe naval bombers, too. This isn't very interesting.

Sorry, small edit here: I was just looking at the stats in the game files, and what's interesting is that the subs' visibility to surface ships and planes never changes from one generation to the next. The only thing that evolves is their evasion factor. But I'm not sure that's a good idea, for being spotted allows enemy ships to start swarming in the way they do in this game, and you can only keep evading them for so long before you're toast.

Maybe it's time to start messing around with modding this thing.
 
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I have been playing around some more with the submarines, and I have to say that it has not gone at all well. Even when playing as Germany I pre-position my Type II U-Boot fleets at various spots around the Atlantic before the war begins, the moment they begin to get anywhere near some convoys they get hammered.

Wasn't there an exported modifier somewhere that you could use to reduce their visibility? Maybe that was in an earlier version of the game. One begins to lose track after so many years . . . .

Anyway, one thing I am tempted to do is to tweak the stats of the ships and maybe naval bombers, too. This isn't very interesting.

Sorry, small edit here: I was just looking at the stats in the game files, and what's interesting is that the subs' visibility to surface ships and planes never changes from one generation to the next. The only thing that evolves is their evasion factor. But I'm not sure that's a good idea, for being spotted allows enemy ships to start swarming in the way they do in this game, and you can only keep evading them for so long before you're toast.

Maybe it's time to start messing around with modding this thing.

With the latest patch I have actually noticed an improvement (still room for much more improvement), i put 5 U-boats (type IIs) in the Atlantic Gap, 5 in Central Atlantic Gap and 5 more in the African Coast and they are catching quite a few convoys. The Central Atlantic Gap is good spot for convoy raiding, and I have only convoy interdiction researched this will probably get better with better sub techs.
 
Sorry, small edit here: I was just looking at the stats in the game files, and what's interesting is that the subs' visibility to surface ships and planes never changes from one generation to the next. The only thing that evolves is their evasion factor. But I'm not sure that's a good idea, for being spotted allows enemy ships to start swarming in the way they do in this game, and you can only keep evading them for so long before you're toast.

Maybe it's time to start messing around with modding this thing.

Which stat are you talking about here? I'm pretty sure the stealth stat is what dictates sub visibility, and this does get smaller with later generation subs. I could have my wires crossed, just trying to help :).
 
With the latest patch I have actually noticed an improvement (still room for much more improvement), i put 5 U-boats (type IIs) in the Atlantic Gap, 5 in Central Atlantic Gap and 5 more in the African Coast and they are catching quite a few convoys. The Central Atlantic Gap is good spot for convoy raiding, and I have only convoy interdiction researched this will probably get better with better sub techs.
That's encouraging to hear, although subs should be more effective generally than this implies, I think. British and French shipping is so extensive that it ought to be possible to hit it from almost anywhere in the eastern Atlantic.

Which stat are you talking about here? I'm pretty sure the stealth stat is what dictates sub visibility, and this does get smaller with later generation subs. I could have my wires crossed, just trying to help :).
Yeah, instead of doing the sensible thing and looking at that nice table in the WIki, I was trying to decipher the names in the game files directly. And I misread those names. :rolleyes:
I suppose the easiest thing to try would be to bump down the sub detection stats on DD's and CL's some. It's easy enough to try.
 
Yeah, instead of doing the sensible thing and looking at that nice table in the WIki, I was trying to decipher the names in the game files directly. And I misread those names. :rolleyes:
I suppose the easiest thing to try would be to bump down the sub detection stats on DD's and CL's some. It's easy enough to try.

If it's not sorted by the time I get around to it, the place I was going to start was with the defines that balance sub detection, and then work from there - unit detection value adjustments should also work (touch wood) but the balancing define should make it easier :).
 
If it's not sorted by the time I get around to it, the place I was going to start was with the defines that balance sub detection, and then work from there - unit detection value adjustments should also work (touch wood) but the balancing define should make it easier :).
Are you referring to those LUA files in the defines folder? I wouldn't be able to get close to those at all. I would like to learn to work with LUA files someday - maybe a retirement project.
Meanwhile adjustment of sub detection values appears to be helping some. More to come.