HOI4 - Together For Victory AI Update #4

Sleight of Hand

retired modder
On Probation
14 Badges
Feb 14, 2012
12.114
5.860
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
@SteelVolt

Great job Carl. You've been working your little cotton socks off, and we're all thankful. :p

In your 1.3 hands-off games, how do the Pacific and Norway tend to fare?
 

Kliwarrior

General
82 Badges
Oct 27, 2003
2.145
1.811
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
Great DD, and kudos for your work in tweaking AI. (It also rhymes !)
 

Jorgen_CAB

Field Marshal
55 Badges
May 2, 2002
5.134
2.975
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
All the work on AI seem great and I look forward too it... as an old fellow AI programmer I know how difficult it can be and how one tiny thing can leave a ripple effect you never expected.

I have not seen anything mentioned about the Air AI in the patch notes or diskussions, I do think this could need some love too. The AI seem to use the Air war fine while they have one enemy and one front but once the big war breaks out the AI often seem to hide away their air wings in strange places. Like Germany and Italy sending their entire air fleet to Japan while Japan sending theirs to Europe. All sitting in a few large airbases doing almost nothing.

I'm not sure if this is just some random things in my games or not, but it seems as if Germany do have problem using its air-force against the Soviets as well as defending against allied bombings at the same time, it seems to get a bit confused.

Would be nice to hear if any work have gone into how the AI handles its air-wings?
 

SteelVolt

Technomancer
2 Badges
Aug 4, 2014
735
4.200
  • Paradox Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
1) Not sure if misread that, but is the AI behaviour gone, where Italy f.e. send lots of divisions (50 in one game) to pacific/china theatre if allied with japan and let his own provinces less defended (also for planes and ships)?
I cannot give a binary yes or no as an answer to questions like this, but I have boosted countries prio to cover their own stuff more than shipping around to help others. So it should certainly be better, but things like that probably still happen to some extent.

2) I found out and read a lot about problems with land based naval bombers (only one attack, no real impact) against ships in seazones. Are there any improvements?
Sorry, I'm not sure what this relates to.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

SteelVolt

Technomancer
2 Badges
Aug 4, 2014
735
4.200
  • Paradox Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
@SteelVolt

Great job Carl. You've been working your little cotton socks off, and we're all thankful. :p

In your 1.3 hands-off games, how do the Pacific and Norway tend to fare?

I see Norway invaded quite often, and the pacific tends to see action, though if USA does not get involved it is primarily between Japan and Australia, where Japan has the most potential for invading. Japan sometimes face a too hard fight if they end up in war vs Allies before taking China, and thus avoids attacking USA.
 
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:

SteelVolt

Technomancer
2 Badges
Aug 4, 2014
735
4.200
  • Paradox Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
All the work on AI seem great and I look forward too it... as an old fellow AI programmer I know how difficult it can be and how one tiny thing can leave a ripple effect you never expected.

I have not seen anything mentioned about the Air AI in the patch notes or diskussions, I do think this could need some love too. The AI seem to use the Air war fine while they have one enemy and one front but once the big war breaks out the AI often seem to hide away their air wings in strange places. Like Germany and Italy sending their entire air fleet to Japan while Japan sending theirs to Europe. All sitting in a few large airbases doing almost nothing.

I'm not sure if this is just some random things in my games or not, but it seems as if Germany do have problem using its air-force against the Soviets as well as defending against allied bombings at the same time, it seems to get a bit confused.

Would be nice to hear if any work have gone into how the AI handles its air-wings?

While a couple of bugs in the air AI has been taken care of, it has not been a focus for this particular update. It is being looked at, however, and it WILL be more so for future updates.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

Jorgen_CAB

Field Marshal
55 Badges
May 2, 2002
5.134
2.975
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
While a couple of bugs in the air AI has been taken care of, it has not been a focus for this particular update. It is being looked at, however, and it WILL be more so for future updates.

Thanks for the info, I hope that some of the things done will already have a positive effect on the Air AI as well. Completely understand that there is no possibility to focus all energy everywhere at once. I will be happy with the new AI focus on fronts.

A tale from the frontlines...
In my last game the Germans were fighting the Russians and did well when Republican Spain joined the allies. The German AI now just shuffled about 60-70% if its forces back and forth and most of it was just in transit or standing idle inside Germany making both fronts more or less stalemates. If this is fixed I will be very happy... ;)
 
Last edited:

Jorgen_CAB

Field Marshal
55 Badges
May 2, 2002
5.134
2.975
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
Does this increase the chance of an AI Sealion?

I think it is pretty clear there is a much stronger chance this will happen.

I would rather be more interested if UK could patrol their waters more effectively now so a German player can't do Sealion if things don't swing widely different from history. Germany should have practically zero chance of landing and supplying a force on Englands beaches unless they can dominate the seas which they should not be able to with their meager fleet.

I hope this update will at least make this much harder
 
  • 2
Reactions:

him_15

Field Marshal
16 Badges
Sep 3, 2005
2.543
1.167
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
This is the best DD I have read so far. Pacific war has always really disappointing since HOI2, and I and glad that there is significant improvement. Can't wait to try it out!
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Kriegsspieler

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Feb 27, 2003
10.343
700
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
I cannot begin to express how much this description of what has developed in the Pacific fills me with justifiable hopes. As I noted in the thread attached to the 2nd AI Dev Diary, the Pacific has never functioned very well in any iteration of HOI going all the way back to the original. So to hear the ideas that SteelVolt has put into that part of the game is fantastic news. Even if what we see in 1.3 turns out to have all kinds of bugs -- in classic whack-a-mole fashion -- just to hear about a new plan for making the Pacific work better is cause enough for honest celebration.

It makes an old guy like me want to cry tears of joy

Perconally I can keep doing my job, which is improving the AI.

What YOU can do is play the game once the update is out and provide constructive feedback :)
Oh man, am I looking forward to that! :D
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Karbinder

Second Lieutenant
1 Badges
Sep 30, 2016
167
73
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
@SteelVolt Do you know if there is any current way to get an AI country to offer peace (aside from the Soviet-Finnish war)? If not, will you be working on that in the future? I'd really like a way to end WW2 earlier without having to conquer the world.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Farquarsen

Major
71 Badges
Sep 30, 2015
590
171
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Darkest Hour
May I suggest you look at Matrix's Game, War in the Pacific, any edition, and see how its planes attack first from Carriers and not the escort destroyers? I don't see you have fixed this short coming. Don't feel bad, most all encompassing games miss this. Something about Armies are easier to handle than Navies. I do think Paradox bold to attempt an entire WWII simulation. I enjoy the game and get loads of laughs when the AI does unexpected things. I also applaud your tenaciousness in killing the AI defects.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

dav77-b

Dampfnudel
86 Badges
Jan 10, 2010
1.909
1.363
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Perconally I can keep doing my job, which is improving the AI.

What YOU can do is play the game once the update is out and provide constructive feedback :)

UK AI loves a specific province near bremen and hamburg which has a level 1 port. AI constantly tries to invade it. I build level 5 coastal forts there every game as germany. But it doesnt stop the AI of loveing that spot. Only haveing air&naval superiority stops the AI of suicideing into this level 1 port. Also Italy suicide it tropps by transporting per sea to ethopia as it is at war with UK. These 2 things exists since 1.0