HOI4 - State of the game post 1.5 / Cornflakes

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long_fella

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Note that the following are personal opinions, and some may simply be wrong (and I am happy to be corrected). Note also that I mainly play USSR / Germany and don't play MP. That having been said I'd be interested to see what you all agree / disagree with :). I care deeply about the success of HOI4 and want a game I can enjoy. At the moment, with some 500 hours played, I can't say that I do. In the main it's been a disappointing and frustrating experience.

What works well

* The map - it's gorgeous, detailed, and reflects the world well for a WWII scale strategy game.
* Single province combat.
* Division designer for the player.
* How the player has to make decisions about when and how to spend political power.
* CIC / MIL / Refinery (now that rubber is harder to achieve) development and decisions.
* Focus trees for the player.
* Recruitment and deployment for the player (does the AI still queue up hundreds of units it can't possibly equip, and deploy hundreds of units with limited equipment?).

What looks to have promise

* The new war support system
* The new decisions / missions system

What works well, arguably

* Research - clear, elegant, good interface, where decisions have impact, but it's tightly tied to
* Production - much better than previous HOI iterations, and improved with the recent 1.5 patch, but in turn is tightly tied to
* Trade - which is a bit clunky (sets of 8 units, no stockpiles) but more importantly is undermined by the state of naval warfare in general, and particularly the use of submarines.
* Air war - works well apart from two glaring issues, namely strategic bombers and how they can teleport, and secondly the air war at sea.

What works badly

* Focus trees for the AI - too often railroads the AI into stupid decisions even when playing a historical game. This seems to have got worse with 1.5.
* Battle planner - has never worked well, it's clunky, awkward, needs constant attention, and needs a lot of micro. Often as not you find yourself fighting against it rather than working with it.
* AI fronts - it rarely seems that the AI actually understands terrain or concentration of force. Most of the time it just feels like the AI grabs a number of divisions and says "you lot head in that direction". It pushes a front until (if) it finds a break and then pushes the break, there's no more "thought" involved than that.
* Naval warfare, especially use of submarines for trade interdiction (are supply convoys still completely unmolested?).
* AI naval invasions (but has improved over time).
* Division designer for the AI (but has improved over time).
** Army divisions still take suicidal naval routes to new locations.
** Daft / implausible AI front selection / theatre involvement selection eg Vichy France with no navy planning to get involved on the Indian sub-continent.
* DLC policy - I was a supporter of the approach until Cornflakes where player choice about general / field marshal traits has apparently been put behind a paywall. If it hasn't I can't find the interface :).
* Paradox's approach to QA of their products prior to release.

What I have no experience of with 1.5 but has previously been open to criticism

* Peace conferences with multiple participants
* AI division design
* Volunteer spam
* Lend lease
* The supply system


tldr, I would love Paradox to prioritise working on the list of "What works badly" ahead of >>everything<< else.
 
Last edited:

Marcus

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Add 'suicide Naval trips for divisions' and 'realistic/sane AI front selection (I have Vichy France planning and invading invading the Raj without a Navy, just throwing divisions in there via sea) to 'What works badly'.
 

long_fella

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Add 'suicide Naval trips for divisions' and 'realistic/sane AI front selection (I have Vichy France planning and invading invading the Raj without a Navy, just throwing divisions in there via sea) to 'What works badly'.

Thanks. Done, added with ** to differentiate from my initial list of points.
 

krios41

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* DLC policy - I was a supporter of the approach until Cornflakes where player choice about general / field marshal traits has apparently been put behind a paywall. If it hasn't I can't find the interface :).
My bet is that you didn't find the interface (i don't think they put in behind all ebhind DLC) it's the small person icon you press in the lower left corner of the FM/generals portrait when you have it selected it's like.... realy small and VERY easy to miss >.>
 

long_fella

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Interesting, thanks @krios41 . Just had another look and I still can't see anything. I may be being thick, it may not be there, it may be difficult to see (playing at 2560 * 1440). If it is there it must be possible to make it more accessible.

Can anybody confirm / deny whether this functionality is available to people who didn't purchase the WTT dlc?
 

Spricar

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My personal opinion is that PI should first and foremost FIX the glaring issues this game clearly has before releasing new (costly) DLCs. Game is still not functioning well, if you try to play even one single historical game you just can't and instead of i mproving the state of the game, they have released 3 (three) payed expansions (the last one actually being the only one that could at least being called expansion).

At the moment, PI is milking a very sick cow
 

krios41

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Interesting, thanks @krios41 . Just had another look and I still can't see anything. I may be being thick, it may not be there, it may be difficult to see (playing at 2560 * 1440). If it is there it must be possible to make it more accessible.

Can anybody confirm / deny whether this functionality is available to people who didn't purchase the WTT dlc?
When i'm back from school i'l post a picture of where to find it
 

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Interesting, thanks @krios41 . Just had another look and I still can't see anything. I may be being thick, it may not be there, it may be difficult to see (playing at 2560 * 1440). If it is there it must be possible to make it more accessible.

Can anybody confirm / deny whether this functionality is available to people who didn't purchase the WTT dlc?

The intention in the Dev Diary was clear:
"Command power abilities, assignable traits and the new leader details view are part of the DLC. Most of the personality/background traits are part of the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update."

I don't have WTT and therefore don't have the new Leader Interface, so I can't see any way to assign traits. But I'm not sure why you think this is such a problem. Nobody could assign traits in 1.4.2, so it's a new feature, in line with the DLC model. We still have the old earnable traits. I'm disappointed that the Armour Officer/Panzer Leader trait is now useless for us non-WTT, and I might file a bug report about that when I've played more, as I hope it's an oversight.

I agree with most of what you have said except the Research part. Did you play HoI2 or DH?

I much preferred the HoI3 research model, but the HoI4 model undoubtedly fulfils the OP's criteria for "works well". My critique of it would rest on a difference of philosophy, not any failure of execution by PDX. It does what the devs wanted it to do.
 

long_fella

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I just realised that I didn't put "AI front shuffling units and unnecessarily strategically redeploying units across the map" in the list of things that "work badly". I know Paradox were working on this but I'm not sure that I've played enough 1.5 to comment.

Does anybody have any views as to whether or not this was fixed or improved?
 

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I mostly agree, but "who gets occupations while at war" needs to be on everybody's list if evaluating things that objectively don't work well. The present mechanic is impossible to coherently define/justify, which is a textbook example of "doesn't work". War contribution is still an awful indicator of actual contribution too. AI faction behavior is pretty consistently inane when playing minors.
 

LakeClouds

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Battle planner - has never worked well, it's clunky, awkward, needs constant attention, and needs a lot of micro. Often as not you find yourself fighting against it rather than working with it.

I think the "battle planner" is inherently flawed and not fixable. It sounds like a great idea but since the devs have failed to make it work right several years after launch I would conclude it's not a workable idea. Neither Darkest Hour nor Hoi3 have a battle planner and they work just fine. DH in particular is not a problem dealing with units - in theory there's more micro but in practice it seems like it's less micro because you aren't counting on a mechanism that just doesn't work.
 

krios41

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@long_fella as promsied
upload_2018-3-13_18-0-33.png

There is where you have to look, it's that small icon in the corner of the portrait