HOI4 Oak 1.4.1 BETA patch [checksum: 73d8] **UPDATED 26/6**

[Khevenhuller]

Regarding this, couldn't air units have some form of 'penetration' factor to their attack (both land and naval) ?
For instance, being able to penetrate a tank armor is not the same as BB armor...
Or is this already taken into account somehow?

Malick

Indeed. Not everyone had armour piercing bombs (Italy) or a working aerial torpedo or any practical experience in anti-ship attacks. For the German Stuka, sinking a destroyer or potentially a light cruiser was feasible. But any seriously armoured deck needs an armour piercing bomb to get through it. The Italians were limited to torpedo attacks to have a realistic prospect of sinking anything large, and at least they had a working aerial torpedo and had been practicing dropping them for years. the Germans had neither in 1939, had to buy 1000 from the Italians, and did not start making their own until 1942 when the Japanese gave them their design.

Finding something in the open sea, hitting it when it is moving 20-plus knots, firing back to throw you off your aim, and then you hopefully have an effective weapon.

K

 

[War_lord]

So, is the beta patch meant to have "nothing happened, we were all on holiday" shadow Hitler in all regions?

EDIT: Never mind, restarted my PC and it works now.

 

[SuiciSpai]

The AI is still trying too hard to take a landing beach on this patch. I push them to the sea from Italy to normandy, I had like 100 divisions standing on the coastline, and they are strill trying to invade me. I pushed you back when you had 200 divisions, and now you want to come back with 20? Also, and this maybe its a bug, I see them land 20 divisions near a harbour but they didn't try to push (they could, it was 20 vs 1 little garrison), I just surround them and killed them easily as they had no org at that time. This occurred in my current game twice, and at the same time!

I will provide a save if I spot it again

 

[fyrkrans]

Hmm, but Slovenia isn't even a country in the game? Why would it need a proper flag?

Yeah, it's badly phrased. It should just state that the Slovakian flags were fixed. (Previously Slovakia used Slovenian flags for the most part.)

 

[War_lord]

So I'm playing as Germany and Italy are taking huge losses because they keep trying to send enormous detachments to guard Norway.

Also the Yugoslavian coup chain is broken because it doesn't kick them out of the Axis.

 

[kettyo]

I am actually pretty fine with TAC being flexible and able to do all roles, altho not well. I am strongly against allowing strat bombers for this however. TAC in HOI4 are supposed to be the jack of all trades, kinda shitty at all of them plane for nations that cant afford to research and build all the different specialized types.

The short term reason not to change this is really balance. Nobody has balanced their naval abilities because we didnt intend them to actually be able to fly them, so if I just enabled it we'd have to balance things again. Might be possible if not much else pop up maybe.

It would be a good idea to get them balanced in beta time and keep naval abilities for the patch release. I guess if now they'll lose naval ability (which the player community now used to they have) in the release patch and then soon it will be back again in another patch the community will get confused. I think some of the beta tester community will also be happy to help in balancing. Surely they need to get weak anti-ship abilities now that planes give multiple shots in naval battle but still good enough to be somewhat usable, similar to their ground attack and strategic bombing abilities (weak but still usable).

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah, it's badly phrased. It should just state that the Slovakian flags were fixed. (Previously Slovakia used Slovenian flags for the most part.)

Both are true, because there are Slovenian flag files in the flags folder along side the Slovakian flags. Unmodded game, so it isn't from a mod.

 

[Axe99]

Got a few hours in yesterday, and 1.4.1 looks like it's working very well (and 1.4 in general is a wonderful improvement ). You've all been very busy bees indeed .

That said, Germany still seemed a bit keen on bashing into Maginot. I'm playing as SOV but did a quick tag switch to have a look at what was happening, and saw:

It seems their offensive plan is for more than just Maginot, but the system has only highlighted Maginot provinces as the first stage of the plan, so Maginot it is. Just mentioning in case helpful. Save for this screenshot attached below.

 

[rwds]

There is an event with Yugoslavia's coup which gives Germany the option to either invite Yugoslavia to the Axis or get a war goal against Yugoslavia. The problem is that Yugoslavia gets invited to Axis automatically depending on other events so the war goal is useless. Is this being looked at?

 

[Emren]

So I'm playing as Germany and Italy are taking huge losses because they keep trying to send enormous detachments to guard Norway.

Yes, I've also experience the German AI "helping" my Axis Italians to guard the Greek islands using Medium Tank divisions - and this after Gibraltar and Suez had fallen to me! I also had taken all of UK Africa, and the Germans were very eager to send Medium Armor divisions to help me guard the border to Belgium Congo. The AI should really be taught to not send garrisons to territory is doesn't currently occupy!

 

[Dalnar]

Cool, the CZE focus tree looks like less generic now. If you have time, can you also rename the focus of the political part? Because that 'Go Rigth' 'Go Left' focuses are... meh.

The tree looks still generic to me and the new flavour descriptions are largery historically inaccurate ...

The greatest offender for me is that desc that basically says "we will sell weapons to everyone to fund our own rearmament", which is historical nonsense as Czechoslovak rearmament program was largerly funded by the defense loan bonds issued in 1936 that were bought by the common people. The arms exports companies were privately owned and the profits went of course to the owners (share holders), not the state. For example Czechoslovakia owned only 9% of shares in Skoda Works and only after special issues of shares in 1937. The majority owner was the french company Schneider. There was even a case in which one of the major producers of arms (ČKD I think) basically extorted the government and refused prioritiy deliveries for Czechoslovak army. Yet in game, you can easily keep export bonuses even during defensive war .

So please, no more "flavour" descriptions that twist historical facts, better leave them generic as they are. Given that the fascist leader is not even right, I would prefer if they do not offer further alternative facts to the political part, especially when for Paradox the greatest internal struggle in pre-war was Czecho-Slovak Civil war, something that was as likely as Amish revolt in US.

 

[Louella]

I cant find any bug reports on plane stats

@Dalwin @podcat about these plane stats. I've noticed, while looking at updating one of my mods that affects aircraft, that the naval targeting and naval attack values of aircraft have been changed.

Is that an intentional change ?

example, CAS archetype, now has:

# Air vs Navy - medium damage / high hit chance / medium to hurt
naval_strike_attack = 3
naval_strike_targetting = 10

whereas before, CAS archetype had:
# Air vs Navy - medium damage / high hit chance / medium to hurt
naval_strike_attack = 1.0
naval_strike_targetting = 1.0


so, most targetting statistics have been multiplied by 10, and naval strike attack values have also been increased substantially. Is this because of some alteration in the mechanics, and these larger whole numbers allow for more adjustments to be made ?

 

[Dalwin]

@Dalwin @podcat about these plane stats. I've noticed, while looking at updating one of my mods that affects aircraft, that the naval targeting and naval attack values of aircraft have been changed.

Is that an intentional change ?

example, CAS archetype, now has:

# Air vs Navy - medium damage / high hit chance / medium to hurt
naval_strike_attack = 3
naval_strike_targetting = 10

whereas before, CAS archetype had:
# Air vs Navy - medium damage / high hit chance / medium to hurt
naval_strike_attack = 1.0
naval_strike_targetting = 1.0


so, most targetting statistics have been multiplied by 10, and naval strike attack values have also been increased substantially. Is this because of some alteration in the mechanics, and these larger whole numbers allow for more adjustments to be made ?

I saw some mention of differentiating naval attack values in the patch notes IIRC, though it might have been mentioned by a dev in a forum thread instead. I am sure it is intentional. That is not the sort of issue to which I had been referring and to be honest I have not seen any aircraft problems myself, though I am not studying those in detail. I am certain that part of the naval attack change was to give value back to NAV especially at tier I. That and other changes will force people away from CAS only strategies. A mix of types will be (and should be) more effective.

I think the bigger concerns at the moment are AI choices for research priority (it favors doctrines too much) and laws (it has gone from rushing conscription too much to not raising it enough).

 

[Jeankazuhiza]

I've tested for a few minutes this BETA patch, but i couldn't have enough time to see if anything of the problems i would to address have been taken in consideration.

I hope i can play more tomorrow since i have more time.

EDIT: Thankfully the czech focus looks more unique, but i would to suggest a few changes, change the name of the czech fascist party to Národní obec fašistická, and when the 'Czech consolidation' focus is complete, change the name of the party to Vlajka.

Also, for those who tried the democratic and fascist king focus... has anything changed? Because we feel that we're meant to play monarchies.

 

[X_MasterDave_X]

Hi Podcat,

did a handsoff game to see how the new beta looks like. Seems many problems are solved. But some things are very strange.

1) is it normal that national spain after the civil war builds masses of Divisions? I counted 250 Divisions in Summer 1942. And as they are part of the Axis now this could lead to a very debalanced Outcome of the war. On the other side, spainish Divisions are all inside spain at all coasts or fronts.

2) Again German AI gets parts of conquered Land of Axis Friends. They got a part of the coast in Algeria, some Part inside Serbia from Italia, and the western half of conquered India from Japan. Especially this last part seems very strange. How could the AI handle that land to Germany? I have seen this since some time now also in 1.4.0 often. While Yugoslavia is historic what about India?

3. Japan (again) doesnt try to conquer dutch east Indies, even as they are very successful. Now after conquering all of China, India and Singapoore.....they bring all Divisions to the northern borders near Sinkiang, Mongolia and SU. Why not using some of their 200 Divisions to conquer the easily capturable Dutch East Indies? So many Ressources there.

4. Since 1.4.1 the AI uses its Fleets not anymore in big fleets, but spreads them over all Oceans. YOu can see 30-40 US Fleets, some only with 2 Aircraft Carriers, or others with just 3 battleships, without any Cruisers or Destroyers protecting them. And then numerous lonely sailing ships like Destroyers. That leads that masses of ships get on the ground of the ocean fast. Japan, US and UK loses nearly all smaller ships in the first years. I Dont remeber that is aw such behaiviour in 1.3 or even in 1.4. Also masses of lonely sailing Infantry Divisions on the seas, especialy the pacific, where the masses of lonely sailing enemy ships have a easy game to fight against them.

 

[podcat]

@Dalwin @podcat about these plane stats. I've noticed, while looking at updating one of my mods that affects aircraft, that the naval targeting and naval attack values of aircraft have been changed.

most other stats sit at higher numbers so we bumped them a factor 10 for easier reading. it gets changed in the code so there is no difference for gameplay (we did miss updating the airwing interface, but fixed that internally already)

 

[Louella]

most other stats sit at higher numbers so we bumped them a factor 10 for easier reading. it gets changed in the code so there is no difference for gameplay

Good to know. One more thing to update in my mod

And also something that I can use to make some differentiation between aircraft types !

 

[Wraith11B]

1) is it normal that national spain after the civil war builds masses of Divisions? I counted 250 Divisions in Summer 1942. And as they are part of the Axis now this could lead to a very debalanced Outcome of the war. On the other side, spainish Divisions are all inside spain at all coasts or fronts.

I was seeing a lot of this as well, but apparently they chalk it up to the AI preferring large numbers of divisions and working better that way. I was running into Spanish, German and other forces all over the world for the entirety of the war, even after capitulation of their governments.

2) Again German AI gets parts of conquered Land of Axis Friends. They got a part of the coast in Algeria, some Part inside Serbia from Italia, and the western half of conquered India from Japan. Especially this last part seems very strange. How could the AI handle that land to Germany? I have seen this since some time now also in 1.4.0 often. While Yugoslavia is historic what about India?

Again, same thing observed in the game; why Vichy France doesn't get French North Africa and then get locked into a neutral stance for a few years is beyond me.

4. Since 1.4.1 the AI uses its Fleets not anymore in big fleets, but spreads them over all Oceans. YOu can see 30-40 US Fleets, some only with 2 Aircraft Carriers, or others with just 3 battleships, without any Cruisers or Destroyers protecting them. And then numerous lonely sailing ships like Destroyers. That leads that masses of ships get on the ground of the ocean fast. Japan, US and UK loses nearly all smaller ships in the first years. I Dont remeber that is aw such behaiviour in 1.3 or even in 1.4. Also masses of lonely sailing Infantry Divisions on the seas, especialy the pacific, where the masses of lonely sailing enemy ships have a easy game to fight against them.

I think part of this is that the AI doesn't want to redo their starting fleets and how the world's navies handled their ships doesn't rightly make sense to those who've never been in the service (and even those who have). There is a difference between an administrative command (Crusier/Destroyer/Submarine squadrons, battleship/carrier divisions, etc), and a combatant command (Asiastic fleet, Caribbean squadrons, etc).

 

[Louella]

Can someone who is playing a game as the UK, tell me if the squadrons on the carriers are named correctly when you load a save ?

Mine, are all named "1 Squadron FAA", whereas before, they had sequential numbers.

I noticed that the core_l_english.yml localisation file had been changed on the 22nd, so I'm wondering if that has changed something.

 

[Khevenhuller]

Can someone who is playing a game as the UK, tell me if the squadrons on the carriers are named correctly when you load a save ?

Mine, are all named "1 Squadron FAA", whereas before, they had sequential numbers.

I noticed that the core_l_english.yml localisation file had been changed on the 22nd, so I'm wondering if that has changed something.

I just manually rename my squadrons, divisions and fleets anyway: the computer generated stuff just makes my teeth itch.

K