HoI4 has military casualty statistics - confirmed by Podcat

[Rudawitz]

I really hope this is true. For equipment and personnel. The more stats the better! Overall losses, loses by year, theatre, and vs X, Y, Z countries. Podcat "Give us more! "

Losses for each operation would also be nice. It would make it easier to evaluate the effectiveness of strategies used between different play throughs.

 

[FOARP]

We had loss statistics in Darkest Hour. It's perfectly fine, as long as it does not go into unspeakable territory.

In fact TFH strategic tool gave info on manpower losses (if it wasn't broken...), so a development of this at the very least is to be expected.

Yes. It was in Arsenal of Democracy as well. Great feature as it helps you judge the intensity of each country's war-effort.

 

[podcat]

Gonna get this in before someone oversteps and gets locked...

I just find Paradox has lost it's balls when it comes to the historical german flag of this time period and casualties and generally everything else controversial out of fear of negative publicity. Don't fear history guys, embrace it, it's how we learn to avoid making the same mistakes.

We are making a game, not a historical simulation or teaching tool about the horrors of war.

Because "manpower" now maps directly to population losses statistics during the war now gives casualty statistics for all sides.
This doesn't mean that we relax forum rules about civilian casualties and other banned topics, because I'm sure they will still lead to tasteless shitposting and nazi/commie apologetics...

 

[FOARP]

Gonna get this in before someone oversteps and gets locked...



We are making a game, not a historical simulation or teaching tool about the horrors of war.

Because "manpower" now maps directly to population losses statistics during the war now gives casualty statistics for all sides.
This doesn't mean that we relax forum rules about civilian casualties and other banned topics, because I'm sure they will still lead to tasteless shitposting and nazi/commie apologetics...

Yup, noticed that military MP stats are now given in thousands rather than notional MP-points (that we always translated into thousands anyway). Nothing wrong with dealing solely with military casualties in a war-game.

 

[Centurion1973]

Gonna get this in before someone oversteps and gets locked...



We are making a game, not a historical simulation or teaching tool about the horrors of war.

Because "manpower" now maps directly to population losses statistics during the war now gives casualty statistics for all sides.
This doesn't mean that we relax forum rules about civilian casualties and other banned topics, because I'm sure they will still lead to tasteless shitposting and nazi/commie apologetics...

I have a question: will we get data for losses in individial months and comparison with our production of that equipment at that time?

something like this:
january 1936
gained: 25 medium tanks 60 light tanks, 30K manpower etc.
lost: 5 medium tanks 23 light tanks, 4K manpower etc.

february 1936
gained: 35 medium tanks 76 light tanks, 31K manpower etc.
lost: 2 medium tanks 7 light tanks, 1K manpower etc.



Also, will losses due to attrition be included in those stats or only combat losses?


thanks for the info.

 

[Onisuzume]

hmm, if they actually offer casualty statistics for HoI 4, it'll more or less be a new direction for Paradox, unless those statistics just take the form of tanks / planes destroyed.

New direction for paradox? Don't make me laugh.

Spoiler

New to HoI perhaps.

 

[fabius]

Gonna get this in before someone oversteps and gets locked...



We are making a game, not a historical simulation or teaching tool about the horrors of war.

Because "manpower" now maps directly to population losses statistics during the war now gives casualty statistics for all sides.
This doesn't mean that we relax forum rules about civilian casualties and other banned topics, because I'm sure they will still lead to tasteless shitposting and nazi/commie apologetics...

This is awesome news, thanks for confirming!!

Indeed, it's a game, no need to get into dodgy discussions that are only going to spiral into a locked thread.

 

[FOARP]

New direction for paradox? Don't make me laugh.

Spoiler

New to HoI perhaps.

They have never (in any purely PDS game?) published full military casualty statistics for the war as a whole. AoD and DH had it, but these were done by external companies.

 

[podcat]

I have a question: will we get data for losses in individial months and comparison with our production of that equipment at that time?

something like this:
january 1936
gained: 25 medium tanks 60 light tanks, 30K manpower etc.
lost: 5 medium tanks 23 light tanks, 4K manpower etc.

february 1936
gained: 35 medium tanks 76 light tanks, 31K manpower etc.
lost: 2 medium tanks 7 light tanks, 1K manpower etc.



Also, will losses due to attrition be included in those stats or only combat losses?


thanks for the info.

Details are for a future diary, but yeah we have a tool to help you balance production/stockpile/losses in the game

 

[safe-keeper]

I would fully support statistics on men lost, for example. As long as they're not civilian casualties.

I just find Paradox has lost it's balls when it comes to the historical german flag of this time period and casualties and generally everything else controversial out of fear of negative publicity. Don't fear history guys, embrace it, it's how we learn to avoid making the same mistakes.

In general (my two cents): there are two kinds of games, really. Games played for fun, and This War of Mine-ish games portraying the brutal reality of war and [various forbidden topics] (and the ones that land somewhere in-between). I feel HOI should remain a strategic war simulator. We know horrible, horrible things happened during WWII, and even just seeing the historical swastika can make the game uncomfortable for some people. Including terrible things in a "for-fun" game can also come across as tasteless, see the attempts in the Call of Duty games.

Think of it this way: it's like simulating horrible crashes, complete with burning wrecks and mangled, bloody bodies, in Gran Turismo -- or make it so that if you crash, you get a detailed rundown of the grisly injuries your body has sustained. Sure, GT is a simulator series, and these things happen, but is it neccessary, or desirable, to include them in a game of this kind ?

 

[Victor Cortez]

Very interesting.
I wonder if stats about enemy production/loss will be available. In theory you shouldn't know that kind of things about your enemy (unless you have spies everywhere).
I suppose we will have to wait for a dev diary.

 

[Nelfe]

Details are for a future diary, but yeah we have a tool to help you balance production/stockpile/losses in the game

If i was a girl, I would ask you to marry me

 

[Centurion1973]

Details are for a future diary, but yeah we have a tool to help you balance production/stockpile/losses in the game

Thank you.

 

[seattle]

Details are for a future diary, but yeah we have a tool to help you balance production/stockpile/losses in the game

That was the last missing piece in the puzzle. Now HoI4 is perfect! Can't wait for the diary.

Do you guys know the mod "info addict" for Civ5? It's a treasure chest for stats. Example: X has 100 military power compared to my 50. X bullies me around and finally dow's me. I apply an effective defensive strategy and soon the military power evens out. The a.i. of X offers me a favourable peace deal due to the losses and new balance of power.
"Info addict" lets me follow the consequences of each action in graphs. The stats are numerous. Enforcing embargoes shows you how the net income of the victim drops from now on.

Casualty stats done right are a vital analytical tool and will work perfectly with the new HoI4 concept: long-term macro planning. I don't know why so many people are negative about the development. Everything makes sense. HoI3 was just a bloody mess of singular great ideas that didn't work when you combined them into one game. Hence it felt sluggish and not well thought-out.

 

[seattle]

Well, if you were a girl you most likely not care about HOI IV! I know of only one player of HoI3 who is a girl.

And if he was a girl that cares about HoI, then Podcat would probably not be interested in said girl.

 

[Denkt]

Details are for a future diary, but yeah we have a tool to help you balance production/stockpile/losses in the game

Sound very good but I hope the tool don't change your production/mess up your factories efficiency.

 

[PlacidDragon]

Gonna get this in before someone oversteps and gets locked...



We are making a game, not a historical simulation or teaching tool about the horrors of war.

Because "manpower" now maps directly to population losses statistics during the war now gives casualty statistics for all sides.
This doesn't mean that we relax forum rules about civilian casualties and other banned topics, because I'm sure they will still lead to tasteless shitposting and nazi/commie apologetics...

Great, thanx a lot for the clarification podcat

 

[Secret Master]

Errmm…

Was it my imagination or was there a pop-up after every battle that said how many soldiers were casualties on each side?

Casualty statistics are nothing new. The only "new" thing that I can see being included is a summary page of a type similar to that which displayed your strategic bombing loss/damage stat's & such.

Yes. I'll just add that in HOI3, knowing the number of actual casualties was largely irrelevant anyway, not because of anything related to laws and rules, but because manpower and number of men in units did not even correlate in any way. Losing 5000 men in a battle never tells you how much manpower you lost. If they were in MIL brigades, it means something completely different in terms of manpower than if they were in MAR or MTN.

This doesn't mean that we relax forum rules about civilian casualties and other banned topics, because I'm sure they will still lead to tasteless shitposting and nazi/commie apologetics...

Exactly. And we won't be discussing mods, achievements, or decisions that use the new manpower system to turn the game into a genocide simulator, either. Just in case someone asks.

 

[Baltasar]

Which opens another can of questions... Will the stance of units affect their loss ratio? Will it matter whether they attacked or are defending? Will techs like First aid make themselves felt more directly in HoI4? Will there be doctrines which affect average loss ratios (human wave vs defense in depth for example)? In other words, what tools will players have to directly or indirectly afftect their pool of available men?

 

[Centurion1973]

.......

IMO, you should delete or edit that post - some of it is directly about things that are banned on this forum.

Reading rules of HoI4 subforum might be helpfull....