HoI4 has military casualty statistics - confirmed by Podcat

[Centurion1973]

Good news - unlike HoI3, Podcat confirmed, that HoI4 will have military casualty statistics.
external link removed - Had a dad

Hopefully casualty statistics + info gained by spies will provide sufficient feedback for effective waging of war - instead od predicting enemy manpower and equipment production rate from crystall ball like in HoI3.

 

[PlacidDragon]

hmm, if they actually offer casualty statistics for HoI 4, it'll more or less be a new direction for Paradox, unless those statistics just take the form of tanks / planes destroyed.

So even though it apparently comes from podcat, i'll be taking it with a huge grain of salt until i see him saying it on this forum

 

[Caesar15]

hmm, if they actually offer casualty statistics for HoI 4, it'll more or less be a new direction for Paradox, unless those statistics just take the form of tanks / planes destroyed.

So even though it apparently comes from podcat, i'll be taking it with a huge grain of salt until i see him saying it on this forum

My thoughts exactly.

 

[D Inqu]

hmm, if they actually offer casualty statistics for HoI 4, it'll more or less be a new direction for Paradox, unless those statistics just take the form of tanks / planes destroyed.

So even though it apparently comes from podcat, i'll be taking it with a huge grain of salt until i see him saying it on this forum

We had loss statistics in Darkest Hour. It's perfectly fine, as long as it does not go into unspeakable territory.

In fact TFH strategic tool gave info on manpower losses (if it wasn't broken...), so a development of this at the very least is to be expected.

 

[gnome109]

The DH stats are really good.

 

[Big Nev]

Errmm…

Was it my imagination or was there a pop-up after every battle that said how many soldiers were casualties on each side?

Casualty statistics are nothing new. The only "new" thing that I can see being included is a summary page of a type similar to that which displayed your strategic bombing loss/damage stat's & such.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. Your spies would give you an indication of the manpower available to your enemy, so... if you're trying to bleed them dry, I always found this (and it's monthly change) was close enough to determine overall strategy and when to step it up.

 

[PlacidDragon]

We had loss statistics in Darkest Hour. It's perfectly fine, as long as it does not go into unspeakable territory.

Most things in terms of casualties is "unspeakable territory" when it comes to a Paradox game. I'll admit that my memory is a tad fuzzy as its a number of years ago, but i seem to recall that someone early on in HoI 3 (i cannot remember if it was during development or if it was after release), when it was suggested if we couldn't gather battlereport losses into the ledger (or something along those lines), it was immediately shot down (hard) by Paradox as inappropriate.

I've not played Darkest Hour myself, so cannot say anything about that

I'm sorry, but I don't see what all the fuss is about

Nor do i, but i dont make the rules here

 

[Adonnus]

Errmm…

Was it my imagination or was there a pop-up after every battle that said how many soldiers were casualties on each side?

Casualty statistics are nothing new. The only "new" thing that I can see being included is a summary page of a type similar to that which displayed your strategic bombing loss/damage stat's & such.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. Your spies would give you an indication of the manpower available to your enemy, so... if you're trying to bleed them dry, I always found this (and it's monthly change) was close enough to determine overall strategy and when to step it up.

Because it's fun to see how many losses you've inflicted in total vs sustained. And gives it a "real war" feel to it more so than just having manpower values of your enemy.

 

[Big Nev]

Most things in terms of casualties is "unspeakable territory" when it comes to a Paradox game. I'll admit that my memory is a tad fuzzy as its a number of years ago, but i seem to recall that someone early on in HoI 3 (i cannot remember if it was during development or if it was after release), when it was suggested if we couldn't gather battlereport losses into the ledger (or something along those lines), it was immediately shot down (hard) by Paradox as inappropriate.

I've not played Darkest Hour myself, so cannot say anything about that


Nor do i, but i dont make the rules here

Sorry Placid, maybe I'm miss-interpreting your post but it’s not about the (Forum?) rules. I do, very definitely, see why the rather morbid topic of the tally-of-death should be frowned upon, even to the point of being a banned topic.

What I don’t see what the fuss is about is why more of this information is seen to be important. As I (thought I had) pointed out, sufficient information was available in HoI 3 for the big decisions.

Also, if it was done properly, the Fog of War would distort these figures beyond use anyway. History clearly shows battle reports of casualties inflicted were almost universally exaggerated, frequently beyond all recognition whilst, at the same time, casualties suffered were frequently massaged or covered-up altogether.

 

[PlacidDragon]

Sorry Placid, maybe I'm miss-interpreting your post but it’s not about the (Forum?) rules.

No no, i dont think this discussion is against the forum rules (or i wouldn't have said anything)

When i said "i dont make the rules here", i just meant that Paradox has always treated this as a very delicate issue, so i try to avoid it as much as possible.

My initial response to the thread starter was that if HoI 4 were to have military casualty statistics (as in detailed ones, beyond "you have lost a total of 12.542 single engine fighter planes"), this would be a shift from earlier Paradox titles, and indeed, earlier philosophy.

I am not suggesting that it is wrong, statistics are helpful, as you say, in strategic decisions. Information like items built, items destroyed, etc would be of great interest over a campaign

 

[takedown47]

Why would battle losses be inappropriate? AGEOD's been doing it for years:

 

[PlacidDragon]

Why would battle losses be inappropriate? AGEOD's been doing it for years:

Practically every wargame does (i remember statistics as far back as "War in Russia" from SSI in the early 90's)

So we'll see what podcat has to say when he sees this thread, if he deems it worthy of comment

 

[takedown47]

I just find Paradox has lost it's balls when it comes to the historical german flag of this time period and casualties and generally everything else controversial out of fear of negative publicity. Don't fear history guys, embrace it, it's how we learn to avoid making the same mistakes.

 

[Ibn_Solmyr]

I hope the game will give only stat estimations, for human and (big number) stuff losses, it shouldn't give us some accurate data. But we should be able to improve the accurate of those stats by a specific intelligence/spying/leadership effort.
Some "decimal" stats of losses and even worse casualties inflicted would be pretty ridiculous, and immersive killing.

 

[Centurion1973]

I hope the game will give only stat estimations, for human and (big number) stuff losses, it shouldn't give us some accurate data. But we should be able to improve the accurate of those stats by a specific intelligence/spying/leadership effort.

I dont have a problem with loss stats initially being incorrect by some margin, but that info should get corrected over a next few months. Winner of the battle should also get much more accurate info, since they own the battlefield and can count destroyed equipment etc.

 

[Federkiel]

I just find Paradox has lost it's balls when it comes to the historical german flag of this time period and casualties and generally everything else controversial out of fear of negative publicity. Don't fear history guys, embrace it, it's how we learn to avoid making the same mistakes.

Banned games usually don't sell well.

Regarding casualities, i don't think that lost equipment would be an issue.

 

[takedown47]

The world is bigger than Germany. Paradox is basically applying German law to all their customers even if they don't live in Germany. If Paradox were a German company or based in Germany I would understand. But even all this nonsense recently about not even displaying Hitler's portrait in the politics menu (or a portrait with him wearing an iron cross), it's just self-censorship gone mad.

 

[PlacidDragon]

The world is bigger than Germany. Paradox is basically applying German law to all their customers even if they don't live in Germany. If Paradox were a German company or based in Germany I would understand. But even all this nonsense recently about not even displaying Hitler's portrait in the politics menu (or a portrait with him wearing an iron cross), it's just self-censorship gone mad.

This has nothing to do with Germany, its Paradox's rules, and we as users of this forum has agreed to abide by them. We can think what we want about them, but if we dont follow them, there are consequences. So please dont get this thread locked

 

[Federkiel]

The world is bigger than Germany. Paradox is basically applying German law to all their customers even if they don't live in Germany. If Paradox were a German company or based in Germany I would understand. But even all this nonsense recently about not even displaying Hitler's portrait in the politics menu (or a portrait with him wearing an iron cross), it's just self-censorship gone mad.

Sry if i have gotten you wrong. I wasn't aware if they were planning to internationalize the banning of names/portraits/flags. This would make me wonder actually since they don't use to do so. Just we Germans get the kid version.

 

[fabius]

I really hope this is true. For equipment and personnel. The more stats the better! Overall losses, loses by year, theatre, and vs X, Y, Z countries. Podcat "Give us more! "