HoI4 + EU4 = Vicky3 beta

[VienLa]

HoI4 has a completely new combat system. It's perfect to represent horrible slogfest of WW1-era warfare, as well as resource usage from the economy that we all know and love. And now EU4 will literally add a great power system!

FACE THE TRUTH! Vicky 2 was the best strategy of it's time, and is still the best game ever. It's obvious that they're using their other games to test upcoming Vicky3 features!

 

[Nirmara]

I really doubt they will implement HoI combat in VIctoria III due to the different nature of both game.

If there is one game they can actually use to test a lots of things related to V3, it's Stellaris.

 

[22pedro22]

I really doubt they will implement HoI combat in VIctoria III due to the different nature of both game.

If there is one game they can actually use to test a lots of things related to V3, it's Stellaris.

What do you mean?

 

[Nirmara]

Concerning HoI4 and V3, war is will probably be way more fast paced in V3 due to the number of tick (per days vs per hours). They could split each days in two to make V3 slower, but going in a per hours bases for a time-frame of 100 years seem's very unlikely to me. Also, battle will probably be fought inside a province like in V2/Europa since it is the most realistic way to portrait warfare during the period covered including most of WW1. On the other hand, they could import the battle-plan system to V3 to make mobilization and warfare less tedious overall.

Concerning Stellaris, the following mechanics could be used in V3 with a few modifications: The alliance system, the internal political system (election, rebellions), sector (to manage colonies in V3). I also hope we will eventually get a real economy/trade in Stellaris even if it will not on the scale on V2.

 

[VienLa]

Actually rather than HoI4 battles (which are very WW2) I meant how warfare in general looks in HoI4. I admit that the battles aren't very fitting, but I assumed that large fronts with different concentration of firepower would be a better representation than EU4/CK2 deathstacks. Ofc, the mechanics of "who wins the battle" could be different (for example, by shoving against one another the ability of military to build and maintain trenches, and organise breakthroughs), but in general it seems to be closer, more accurate.

Though I have to admit that I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to WW1 warfare.

 

[Atlantians]

The 'feel' of HOI4 battles definitely feels more appropriate for WWI.

The problem is that Victoria II simplifies radical changes in warfare into remarkably EU4-like combat.

The style and strategy of the era changes radically from 1836 to 1914.

From EU-4 style death-stacks to HOI4 fronts.

There really is only way to represent that, and that is to cut off Victoria III at 1900 or so and have a save converter into HOI4 that creates an ahistorical WWI-style scenario.

 

[Vorondil]

Technology/invention is the way to do both!

At the begining of the game we start with battleplan locked so it'll be a EU4 like warfare system and encourage kind of deathstacking strategy (for exemple the franco-prussian war was fought by decisive battles like Sedan).
Then, in the late 19th century, one can unlock trench doctrine (far bigger defense bonuses for entrenched units) and thus HOI4 battleplans : with this tech, a "deathstack" could be stopped by a well entenched smaller unit and thus covering a whole front become possible => WWI slogfest.

IMHO for a potential Vicky III :

- Keep the same complexity for population, economy and politics than Victoria II, even more deeply (POP demand Mod ^^)
- Add diplomatics features from EU4
- Add production and military features from HOI4 (division planner, battleplan and production system. For the latest, VII already keeps tracks from various production like coal or canned food, so it's easy to implement)
- Overhaul for the commerce interface (you could choose where you can buy stuff, refuse to trade with your foes and could blocade his/her economy if your navay is big enough).

=> best GSG ever for me ^_^

 

[Agiknight]

You underestimate how impossibly complex it would be programming wise to have both systems in the same game. The AI can barely handle one or the other by itself.

 

[Suzaku]

Technology/invention is the way to do both!

At the begining of the game we start with battleplan locked so it'll be a EU4 like warfare system and encourage kind of deathstacking strategy (for exemple the franco-prussian war was fought by decisive battles like Sedan).
Then, in the late 19th century, one can unlock trench doctrine (far bigger defense bonuses for entrenched units) and thus HOI4 battleplans : with this tech, a "deathstack" could be stopped by a well entenched smaller unit and thus covering a whole front become possible => WWI slogfest.

IMHO for a potential Vicky III :

- Keep the same complexity for population, economy and politics than Victoria II, even more deeply (POP demand Mod ^^)
- Add diplomatics features from EU4
- Add production and military features from HOI4 (division planner, battleplan and production system. For the latest, VII already keeps tracks from various production like coal or canned food, so it's easy to implement)
- Overhaul for the commerce interface (you could choose where you can buy stuff, refuse to trade with your foes and could blocade his/her economy if your navay is big enough).

=> best GSG ever for me ^_^

How would this work in the East with a more mobile battles and was far less reliant on trench warfare.

 

[Vorondil]

How would this work in the East with a more mobile battles and was far less reliant on trench warfare.

In the east, the front was very mobile for various reasons :

- it was WAY wider than the Westfront => more space to manoeuvre
- after Vistula, no real "natural border" to fix a front line
- The strenght of the russian army : it was behind the german one considering doctrines, armament quality etc.

In game, with the HOI4 battleplan system, it would be more like "a slower barbarossa" than the Westfront slogfest. With a wider front, each belligerant could use a strong concentration point to try to break the enemy lines and then exploitation with cavalry. In the west it's not possible because the front density would be higher everywhere, with natural obstacle, forts etc.

 

[VienLa]

Technology/invention is the way to do both!

At the begining of the game we start with battleplan locked so it'll be a EU4 like warfare system and encourage kind of deathstacking strategy (for exemple the franco-prussian war was fought by decisive battles like Sedan).
Then, in the late 19th century, one can unlock trench doctrine (far bigger defense bonuses for entrenched units) and thus HOI4 battleplans : with this tech, a "deathstack" could be stopped by a well entenched smaller unit and thus covering a whole front become possible => WWI slogfest.

IMHO for a potential Vicky III :

- Keep the same complexity for population, economy and politics than Victoria II, even more deeply (POP demand Mod ^^)
- Add diplomatics features from EU4
- Add production and military features from HOI4 (division planner, battleplan and production system. For the latest, VII already keeps tracks from various production like coal or canned food, so it's easy to implement)
- Overhaul for the commerce interface (you could choose where you can buy stuff, refuse to trade with your foes and could blocade his/her economy if your navay is big enough).

=> best GSG ever for me ^_^

I love the idea of tech making the game feasible from deathstack oriented to trench warfare, because, after all, it's a game that is all about change made by industrialisation!

It's a game where you start with kingdoms and end with democracies; you start with farmer&artisan based economy and end with massive factory throughput; you start with fleet of man-o-wars and frigates to end with battleships and cruisers; you start with the military taken straight from EU4 and end with tanks and airplanes.

It makes perfect sense for warfare itself to change from deathstacks to slog.

 

[Zavaleta]

You underestimate how impossibly complex it would be programming wise to have both systems in the same game. The AI can barely handle one or the other by itself.

I would love to have HOI4 battle plans in Victoria but I am afraid this is your answer. It is no so much a question of is it appropriate as whether it can even work at all. Also, HOI4 battle plans are pretty buggy for the AI in that game. I think the AI has a better time overall managing death stacks.

 

[VienLa]

To be honest, I don't see why do you view it as that much of a problem. If deathstack system interacts with battleplans, nothing changes - it still views other regiments as units with varying levels of strength (if you place your units in a straight line in EU4 the AI won't break, it'll still beat them up one by one with a deathstack). In reverse situation battleplans should also understand deathstack AI. After all, HoI4 system handles isolated pockets of defense - and we already assumed that line strategy will be the best after certain defensive techs will be unlocked.

I just don't see it clashing at all. The only rocky thing for AI would be switch from one AI type to another. Though it's a pretty big one. Pretty big.