HOI4 - Development Diary - September 9th 2016

[dermeister]

Warning: NATO counters are turned off by default.

Warning: In fact, NATO counters are the only kind of counter in AS.

I could never have guessed... I must have missed the giant all caps text under your username.

You must pay attention, dear prince.

when they are ready for beta's again they will post.

Thanks for letting me know. I'll PM.

 

[overthewall]

Hope that modder gets at least some complimentary stuff, free Stellaris maybe, or free access to future HoI dlcs, yep that seems more fitting. It shouldn't put you back monetarily, and would be a nice gesture to attract modders. I was always baffled at the insensitivity some devs (not thinking about paradox here), big ones, showed to modders that literally kept their games alive: ex countless Total War mods (rs2 to ss to dei), whoward&community patch for civ5, Long War for XCOM (they got praises sure, but I haven't heard anything material).

 

[KiwiNoob]

Must say I've never seen the point in NATO symbols, and am not surprised they're barely used.

Odd that you think 1/8th of players constitutes 'barely'.

I would say that that level of usage (given it's not the default) is not too bad and definitely justifies the decision to make NATO style icons an option. I certainly enjoy the game a lot more because they are in there.

 

[Krafty]

no, it didn't. curious as to how many it did have, but there has been a significant increase over the last week as I was looking at various things regarding all mods not long ago.

k

 

[Tisifoni12]

France is least popular at 6%.

C'est terrible ! Je suis desole !

 

[Tisifoni12]

The last time I checked there were over 100 divisions in one province. That can't be helping any.

Not healthy either; supply nightmare and health hazard !

 

[Tisifoni12]

I honestly think one of the reasons fewer people use NATO counters is that there aren't any extra division template icons, whereas there are for the Paradox icons. It would be great if you added some of your own.

I find the idea of some extra NATO icons appealing, but I wonder how many I'd use in practice. The main issue I guess to distinguish between infantry unit templates, distinguish line infantry from garrison, distinguish brigades from divisions.

YAY for some more divisional symbols than the existing three !

 

[ltccone]

Not healthy either; supply nightmare and health hazard !

Exactly. I wonder how many died from attrition...

 

[Axe99]

Some thoughts on MP.

1. The majority of RTS war gamers often veer away from MP because MP is where control can only be won or lost in the game, not outside it. People who play these grand strategy games love control. They are after all playing a game where you are in complete control of the faculties of an entire nation. Now you're telling them they have to play on speed 3, they have to adapt, they cannot save scum or utilize exploits. Most cannot abide by these simple expectations.

2. Given that there are no take backs in a MP game, I've seen literally dozens of people rage quite after a mistake. Not a mistake to lose the war, but just a major mistake. I cannot tell you the number of UK players who rage quit when they invade Northern Germany, which I purposely leave open, and then I swallow and encircle them with fast moving Panzer and motorized and they lose 20 divisions to the Reich. Or a Japanese player who quits after losing in China.

There will be some truth in your remarks, although it's worth noting that some RTS games have strong MP communities (Starcraft, for example). I've also noted that even in MP, people want control, but because of the fixed speed, the game can become a contest of APM rather than strategy (ie, the contest is decided by who has better mouse dexterity rather than who can plan and strategise better).

I also think the "most cannot abide by these simple expectations" is a bit loaded. I don't play MP any more, but have played plenty of MP in the past, but never in Paradox games for the same reason I don't tabletop wargame any more - the games were too long and too hard to coordinate for my particular lifestyle, even when I could keep up with things. I think it's awesome for people that do have the time/capacity to get those types of games happening (if I'm healthier when I retire, I'll lkely get into some GSG-style MP then), but these are very real barriers to a large number of gamers, and I suspect the main reason why long-form strategy games will always be primarily single-player affairs (but it's great that people with more time/flexibility are able to play MP as well ).

Another thing to keep in mind is that the lack of control of a major at speed #3 is highly historically implausible. It's still fun, but at least for me, I found it a barrier to playing. That said, I know many MP games are played at more historically plausible speeds, so I wouldn't see this is a barrier to MP per se, just a barrier to a particular type of MP (speed HoI, if you will ).

On #2, more people play ironman than MP, so I'm not sure if this is necessarily a huge factor in terms of the popularity of MP (ie, more people play SP where they can't take back, than play MP in total). Of course, people ragequit in MP, but ragequits are a pretty common gaming thing in any form.

something I am not sure if I'v said is that we removed the restriction on the difficulty sliders for not applying to humans, so if you play with people of very different skill levels you can use the sliders to give yourself some handicap.

I don't think you've said this, and this is really cool . I don't play MP m'self, but this kind of functionality is a great way of a group being able to bring in new people without having to put "kid gloves" on, love your work .

 

[Uladh88]

i find it shocking that 88% of hoi4 players are playing a broken single player with the AI we have to deal with, i have 700 hours played exclusive to multiplayer

 

[tom_jones]

i find it shocking that 88% of hoi4 players are playing a broken single player with the AI we have to deal with, i have 700 hours played exclusive to multiplayer

Horses for courses. The AI may be broken but it's never going to complain if I pause the game for an hour because I feel like doing something else and, even though clueless, it can be prodded into following some semi-historical approach and development. It has none of the MP cheese people beeline for in order to win, that can be more immersion breaking than even the large AI derps.

 

[ltccone]

Horses for courses. The AI may be broken but it's never going to complain if I pause the game for an hour because I feel like doing something else and, even though clueless, it can be prodded into following some semi-historical approach and development. It has none of the MP cheese people beeline for in order to win, that can be more immersion breaking than even the large AI derps.

I have played over 700 hours in SP. If I didn't like the game, I wouldn't be playing it. I know the game has issues. I also know it will get better.

 

[Sir Garnet]

I found the NATO icon contrast too low and markings too fine to be readily identifiable when zoomed out - a good mix of icon shapes is more easily identified.

 

[Mjarr]

Some thoughts on MP.

1. The majority of RTS war gamers often veer away from MP because MP is where control can only be won or lost in the game, not outside it. People who play these grand strategy games love control. They are after all playing a game where you are in complete control of the faculties of an entire nation. Now you're telling them they have to play on speed 3, they have to adapt, they cannot save scum or utilize exploits. Most cannot abide by these simple expectations.

2. Given that there are no take backs in a MP game, I've seen literally dozens of people rage quite after a mistake. Not a mistake to lose the war, but just a major mistake. I cannot tell you the number of UK players who rage quit when they invade Northern Germany, which I purposely leave open, and then I swallow and encircle them with fast moving Panzer and motorized and they lose 20 divisions to the Reich. Or a Japanese player who quits after losing in China.

3. MP is NOT about Minors. While nations like Turkey, Canada, Romania, China and the Raj can participate and influence the war, if you're not among the Major powers, you ultimately don't have much say in the direction of the war. There's some strange fetish in MP where people love to play obscure nations when there is no UK or Japan player.

Time investment to play HoI4 multiplayer (or other titles falling under grand strategy label) in relation to how easily it can go sour is pretty skewed. Granted I have no experience how HoI4 plays out, but in most grand strategy games even that major mistake may potentially cripple the game for good and whether continuing already skewed situation to delay the inevitable (in worst case scenario) is acceptable or no, is bound to create plenty of arguments either way. Same goes for possible houserules vs anything goes and how to enforce them in the first place.

 

[tsk92]

Whoops wrong thread.

 

[KristoffPL]

Psst, HOW BIG EXACTLY chance of you guys contacting the authors more popular mods and trying to get their permissions to incorporate their mods into the base game more often (on regular basis even)?

even if its just little cosmetic mods like the colored button mod
pretty please
dontkillmeimjustaskingaaaa

 

[shnukshnuk]

since you are integrating the enhanced peace conference AI. maybe integrate the Empire of Manchukuo mod and work around with it?

also please change japans name to Empire of Japan as that makes a lot more sense

i see my cult following of dislikers are back at it lol x4 disagree, i dont really know what you are disagreeing with lol

besides i still have 100+ agrees on the other thread and like 30+ helpful's now so i still have the win


Hint: rather then just disagreeing maybe explain why? if its because im repeating myself maybe say so

 

[Ksyr]

i see my cult following of dislikers are back at it lol x4 disagree, i dont really know what you are disagreeing with lol

besides i still have 100+ agrees on the other thread and like 30+ helpful's now so i still have the win

I just disagreed with you because you are counting the ratings, but you don't understand bias and arrive at an undocumentet conclusion.

 

[shnukshnuk]

I just disagreed with you because you are counting the ratings, but you don't understand bias and arrive at an undocumentet conclusion.

so do you genuinely think Manchukuo should not be included?

my conclusion isnt undocumented as i go off the actual records lol. my statement on this thread was also a way of helping the devs out since they are going to include manchukuo again anyway drops their workload if i help out a bit

 

[Oddb@ll]

i see my cult following of dislikers are back at it lol x4 disagree, i dont really know what you are disagreeing with lol

besides i still have 100+ agrees on the other thread and like 30+ helpful's now so i still have the win


Hint: rather then just disagreeing maybe explain why? if its because im repeating myself maybe say so

Mostly because at this point your posts about Manchukuo are getting kind of spammy and annoying. I wouldn't mind seeing them in the game, I just think you've made your point already.