HOI4 - Development Diary - September 23rd 2016

[Enzo]

don't try to compare AI from a game that already have 3 expansions from a game which has none yet
if you want real challenge, play mp

 

[Meglok]

@podcat

Basing this on 1.2.1 with likely historical path on : I just fired a spectate game as Honduras (nice pick for that imo). The not so good things that happened :

- Japan was loosing all Manchuria and Corea while pushing in a very uncertain offensive in south-east China, now they're more or less loosing the war. China isn't at war with Popular China which is pretty ahistorical and the base of the problem imho. Tchang Kaï-Chek had said that for him war against Mao was even more important than war with Japan, which always seemed to be a dead-end eventually to him. This was a very complicated front and situation to occidental eyes : while at war, there still were some checkpoints where opium traffic was continueing for example. Better : TKC concluded a pact with Japanese at a time, in order to they let thousands of brand new troops get through the front with Japan, to let those forces continue the fight against communist China into the newly Japanese controlled area, that couldn't be reached.

- Germany managed to hurry its war in Europe, and France felt by '39 spring : ok. But then allies managed an amphibious invasion that Germany didn't take care enough appearently (how could defeated little british forces and annihilated french forces could handle an immediate counter-offensive by invasion of the whole north of France ??). But Germany did struggle at eradicating this front, loosing Paris. Then it declared war against USSR, openning the famous second front which they historically absolutely didn't want.

- Of course things could'nt go nice then : USSR managed to gain a bit of territory and Germany is so in a defensive position, in the East and in the West. But, of course, it decides to declare war on Yougoslavia, openning a 3rd front !.. -_-

- Still some occupying problems where Germany isn't able to pacifiate controlled territories.

The Yugoslavia focuses for Germany and Italy need work. The Italian Yugoslavia focus should not historically fire until after Albania is annexed, the AI should fire the Germany Yugoslav focus before a DoW on Russia, Germany should not DoW Russia until Yugoslavia capitulates, and if already at war with Russia Germany should not DoW a neutral Yugoslavia.Write those exceptions into those focus files and the problem should be solved.

 

[billcorr]

WHY is Hoi4 more fun to play?

Because there are alot more meaningful choices and the features that are implemented so they actually have an impact on the game.

And an important part of The Equation of Fun is seeing what the results are of those meaningful choices.

That is why gamers are excited about Paradox's prioritization of information for gamers.

improving ... information to players is high prio and each major patch/expansion will improve that.

Great news!

 

[Slickzor]

So the HoI3 AI which didn't intercept transport ships at all at release for example did not bother you any bit at all, allowing you to easilly invade UK as Germany? (fixed in HoI4) Or the HoI3 AI that didn't ever fight in the Pacific until the 3:ed expansion ( will be fixed in HoI4s first according to the devs ). Or the HoI3 AI that sent 100 divisions to deal with a few partisans that rose up? ( fixed and revamped system in HoI4 ).

Sometimes it's important to take of the nostalgia glasses, and remember not only the good things with previous games but also the bad things.

Buddy thats exactly what I m talking about. Your last phrase has nothing to do with it.

Its like we are back to 0 only with better graphics.

I never bothered with HOI3 original.

I guess I was stupid enough to believe PDS would be different this time and make a game decent enough to buy it from release. As many other posters have already noticed 3 years after release for 5 bucks feelsgoodman.jpg

 

[billcorr]

I guess I was stupid enough to believe PDS would be different this time and make a game decent enough to buy it from release.

"Disappointment" might be the word to sum up the feelings expressed in the quote. HoI4 did not arrive fully formed like Athena springing forth from Zeus' skull. This originally disappointed me, too. "What? I paid money to be a beta tester? They should pay ME!"

Instead, HoI4 was birthed as an infant, unable to fully walk or talk. But it contains within it a system to become what we want it to become. Since my initial disappointment, I've come to realize that yes, this is a work in progress.

And the progress comes from all of us gamers. By participating on these forums and sharing our thoughts and especially our suggestions, we shape the game to make it what we want it to be. This is best done through debate and discussion. Insults, whining, and complaints do not help. I take that back. Perhaps complaints might even help, if paired with a suggested solution. The point is, the structure is in place for continuous improvement and growth of the game.

The evidence for this malleable system includes:

• a sophisticated modding system
• a polite and responsive developer team (some of the jibes, lamentations, and outright attacks directed at Paradox employees would have provoked unprofessional responses from mere mortals, but overall, the responses written by the Paradox teams have been written with dignity)
• a system of improvement that revolves around the customers

The future improvements will cost money. This irks many customers. That's understandable. But it costs money to get things done. Paradox employees have to feed their families, pay their rent, and take vacations. The money cycle needs to be there. Without an inflow of money, the advance of improvements won't be as rapid. But there'll still be improvements because of the modding community.

The modders play a very important role in the improvement of the game. Their passion, skills, dedication, and commitment deserve special commendation. They create improvements that many times are adopted into the mainstream game. Well done!

Perfection is an elusive goal. But together, through discussion, debate, and how we vote with our money, the game will get better.

 

[Smiles_]

if you want real challenge, play mp

I rarely have the time to dedicate to an entire sitting of what would be a MP game. So I hope SP gets more and more challenging.


Smiles

 

[Slickzor]

"Disappointment" might be the word to sum up the feelings expressed in the quote. HoI4 did not arrive fully formed like Athena springing forth from Zeus' skull. This originally disappointed me, too. "What? I paid money to be a beta tester? They should pay ME!"

cool beans and nice essay but save the sarcasm ?

Furthermore, If you do care to join the debate in what I consider constructive, you can discuss my "It happens" post a page ago.


Concerning MP
and as the poster above mentions MP is very very time consuming and unless you got a douzen of friends playing HOI4 you are stuck with sessions the begin with 12 players and might end with 5 or 6 at best. After the host has changed about the same amount of times and the game is at best at speed 3 during 36 to 39 due to people with slow machines and high graphics options lagging the game.

MP is not that great. Its only useful as a misdirection argument in these boards.

 

[billcorr]

If you do care to join the debate in what I consider constructive, you can discuss my "It happens" post a page ago.

I'm interested in reading about your ideas. Would you be able to provide a link to the "it happens" post? (I took a quick look at the postings and was unable to locate the posting you mentioned).

 

[Krafty]

I dont necessarily disagree with that

Yeah air mechanics are big and need some work, what that guy describes sounds pretty cool. I miss the HOI3 style interception, I miss 'units' of planes, with their own xp and training, I miss building airbases in provinces (with the range mechanics, why cant I build more airbases in a s

The game needs expansion of Internal Politics and Economy. There is NOTHING in the game except for war, literally NOTHING. You build troops, you station them on the front lines and wait.

I am looking forward to More Events, Improved Economy, More Laws and Policies, More Parties, Espionage, Improved Diplomacy.

I am glad that I am not alone in that desire, considering that every major mod that came out or is in the process of development aims to implement those ideas.
In the end, you can't have Grand Strategy focused only around managing armies, it's not chess after all.

This.

So much this.

A thousand times this.

 

[Krafty]

And the impact either of them had on the actual game was close to zero.

Even right now with the very basic political system in HoI4 it can have massive impacts on the game like triggering civil wars. The laws in HoI4 have tradeoffs too, unlike the ones in Hoi3 which was just no-brainer progressions.

I will take a system that has meaningful impact on the game any day over one that has alot of details which doesn't matter or change how the game plays the slightest except for adding a bit immersion.

Wut?

Hoi2s political sliders were deep af.

Hawk vs Dove?
Centralization vs decentralization?
Intervention vs non intervention?
Authoritarians...paternal autocrats...it was all all pretty awesome and deep and meaningful. Those slider choices were integral every year.

 

[scroggin]

It happens when simple things like messages for invasions, the resolution of a sea or land battle dont pause the game or even alert you, but PDS games did that for the last decade.

It happens...

Thats a big one for me I know that auto pause isnt wanted for multi-player games but for single-player please bring it back as an option. I dont notice naval invasions in time and I usually only see that there was a naval battle after it finishes. Naval warfare is spoilt by the fact that I miss most of it.

Dont get me wrong, I love this game in so many ways. I especially love the production system. All Im saying is that better notifications and auto-pause options is where it can be improved. HOI4 was soo much better than HOI3 on release and its only going to get better from here.

At the moment Britain is one of the least played majors but with the comonwealth dlc and naval improvements it could be one of the most interesting. The areas naval warfare could be improved the most are in the Uboat/antisubmarine balance and with a better interface between the player and the naval system. We should be more aware of what is happening and why. Germany should devastate the british economy with a heavy emphisis on U-boats. Britain could in turn devastate the U-boat fleets with good anti-submarine warfare.

One other thing which would compliment the Commonwealth dlc is having the ability to trade equipment. This would let the comonwealth nations get the latest equipment from britain so the expeditionary forces they send are as well equiped as the british armies. Lend lease is limited by the fact that it can only be initiated by the giver and that its free. Receiving lend-lease cant be relied on or planned for by a player.

I hope some of these ideas are useful

 

[Krafty]

I really want messages and auto pausing back.

I loathe manually tapping the space bar and checking everything around the globe every tick.

If I win or lose a battle I need to know that immediately. Especially since theres no 'attack delay'.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Wut?

Hoi2s political sliders were deep af.

Hawk vs Dove?
Centralization vs decentralization?
Intervention vs non intervention?
Authoritarians...paternal autocrats...it was all all pretty awesome and deep and meaningful. Those slider choices were integral every year.

I agree fully, but the question I answered was specifically about HoI3...

 

[Jorlem]

I really want messages and auto pausing back.

I loathe manually tapping the space bar and checking everything around the globe every tick.

If I win or lose a battle I need to know that immediately. Especially since theres no 'attack delay'.

Seconded. Alerts simply aren't good enough for things that you want to be able to respond to immediately.

 

[AaronK]

I have been impressed with the AI in Sunflower so far. As Germany I had my army that was invading the Low Countries/France surrounded (I'm sure I wasn't playing optimally, but I am still impressed that the AI did that.)

 

[Enzo]

I don't believe there is a lot of re-use in the AI from a serie to another, they always have to start from scrath as the engine/design is different. so it's really not possible to compare.
regarding mp, yes it can be time consuming really linked with your practice 4 hours a week is enough if you can dedicated this during 6 months. is it too big ? don't try to group 12 players, 6 is enough to play a decent mp game.

 

[VitaminK]

Knew it was only a matter of time, great to see and cannot wait to see where this game will be in the following year or two. Along with some pretty great mods shaping up I'll be playing this for years to come.

 

[grandad1982]

I really want messages and auto pausing back.

I loathe manually tapping the space bar and checking everything around the globe every tick.

If I win or lose a battle I need to know that immediately. Especially since theres no 'attack delay'.

Yeah the extreme danger of naval invasion is a case in point.

Whilst it is an improvement that I'm grateful for it still leaves much to be desired. In my experience of it so far at least if not more than half the time nothing happens. So what happens is I notice it, pause to look at the area see nothing then have to run the game to see if anything develops and while I'm doing this I have to pay less attention to other things such as my units fighting the other side of the globe.

Sometimes it's very possible to miss it too. In my current Raj game I was busy microing far to few divs (12) to retake France (which I did because Germany react VERY slowly and weakly) so was fully engrossed and when I look at home randomly Japan had invaded and started to take land.

That's why for me an optional popup and pause when the first enemy troops hit the ground in conjuction with the current alerts would be better.

I'd also like some kind of alert and popup for when a land invasion kicks off too. Another time the soviets had captured Delhi (this time i was microing Germanys down fall with 36 divs, harder but their constant unit shuffle is the key) and I had no idea till i randomly when back to queue some factories. There really should have been a notification that I'd started losing land before Delhi fell, and when Delhi fell the fact I got no notification at all is crazy. the screen should flash red and vibrate and scream at you that your capital has fallen!

Of course maybe I was notified and missed it but with out a log how well I be able to check?

 

[ameryazbek]

It would be nice if the first patch significantly improves air warfare.
Compared to HOI 3 we are faaaaar far
Keep up the good work guys

 

[shnukshnuk]

Podcat when you make Manchukuo it should have the same kind of tech tree as Japan since it was similarly equipped. it also participated in Banzai charges and Kamikaze raids later in the war