HOI4 - Development Diary - October 5th 2016

[steveh11]

The design idea is to manually control encirclements while infantry hordes just push along a plan. We actually might have something cool in the pipeline here, but I dont want to promise too early...

I have to say this is the first time I've heard this - it's possibly been said before, but if it was then I missed it. So setting encircling pincer objectives for my armour while having major front objectives for the bulk of the army isn't the way it's designed to work, despite that being the way real-life offensives were planned? I actually have to micro-manage these things now - by design?

<Blinks>

OK, well I guess it's good to know.

 

[MeanTekir]

Guys come on now, writing thoughts like you all play this game without mid-late game lag. I have 150 hours of game play and never get close to complete a single game because of the heavy lag. its all good but I wanna see an improvement about the lag. seriously this big calculations on a single core? paradox please what the actual f.ck? I have every one of your game and each game does have this lag and you people have not learned a single sh.t from the past and still make this mistake. I had waited this game for too long and such disappointment. I start a new game everytime even tho I know whats gonna happen.

btw my specs are
I7 6700k 4.0ghz
I know nothing matters other than cpu but
gtx1070
16 ram and bunch of other shit.

 

[Krafty]

That 50 likes, 50 dislikes....

See @podcat

The direction you guys have picked, is really swimming upstream.

No other dev dairies for any other PDX product get this kind of mixed response. People are upset, and imho, rightfully so. Perhaps you guys can still turn this around and sell your different vision for HOI4 to the fans, but as I said, youre swimming upstream to do it, its going to be very difficult to win those of us who are dissatisfied with the new direction of HOI4 without making some concessions to us.

 

[Art1985]

The design idea is to manually control encirclements while infantry hordes just push along a plan. We actually might have something cool in the pipeline here, but I dont want to promise too early....

It is very frustrating in this design to command divisions manually especially when there are many divisions all around, when those 3d soldiers all around and when hoi4 counters jumping all around ... it is just frustrating.... I prefered hoi3 schematic style, with hoi3 counters.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

[...]
- by introducing bottleneck in the supply chain

Bottlenecks are actually already in the game (if you go to the INFRA mode you'll see them in the local supply calculation tooltip).
However, since supply regions are rather big, they tend not to appear *that* often.

 

[Krafty]

I will have to join the chorus of people who think that the older supply systems needed improvement or refinement, not a complete change of direction,

I counted 26 individual posters in this thread who said exactly this.

A chorus is correct.

 

[Holbenilord]

Guys come on now, writing thoughts like you all play this game without mid-late game lag. I have 150 hours of game play and never get close to complete a single game because of the heavy lag. its all good but I wanna see an improvement about the lag. seriously this big calculations on a single core? paradox please what the actual f.ck? I have every one of your game and each game does have this lag and you people have not learned a single sh.t from the past and still make this mistake. I had waited this game for too long and such disappointment. I start a new game everytime even tho I know whats gonna happen.

btw my specs are
I7 6700k 4.0ghz
I know nothing matters other than cpu but
gtx1070
16 ram and bunch of other ****.

That's weird, I'm using a 3.2GHz i5 and a 970 and the speeds in 1945 are still fine even when the war is still going. Though, if you're in there moving troops the slowdown is a lot less noticeable than if you're observing from afar.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Most transport was and still is by water. I is so much cheaper than rail per ton-mile that it can be regarded as essentially free in comparison, so the transport issue is bottlenecks on land or raiding at sea, both represented in the game.

I agree, when possible transport was almost always done by water. I meant only that of the supply that was done overland was to a large majority handled by rail.

Stacking was capped to -80% in one of the expansions.

Which means that if you use 20 wings in a single stack they accomplish either as much as 4 wings on their own would ( in the last expansion ) = useless, or nothing at all ( in the Hoi3 release version we should be comparing with )...

In my 1000+ hours of HoI3 playing I never put 20 or more wings in a single stack.

 

[Krafty]

Since you brought up rail....

Isnt it odd that you can rail deploy IE Strategic Redeployment on rail, in provinces that uh...absolutely do not have rail roads. Like Strat-deploying across the Sahara...

How does that work lol?

Not to mention, why is the movement rate, supply through-put, etc, the same for every province on the map? Doesnt matter if its Colon in Panama (one of the smallest provinces) or one in Siberia.

The supply through put and movement costs are the same. That makes zero sense.

 

[rjohansen]

I had almost forgot about HOI1 before I see this images. But oh boy, HOI3 system is WAY superior to the non-existing-system of HOI4 in my opinion. Except for that you have to build equipment.

 

[ruzen]

It could have better If supply map, mapped completely different, It could have better.
(possibilities from easy to hard)
-Brand new supply map based on geography rather than political state map and with much smaller sizes.
-Fuel.
-Supply mission for planes and ships.
-Ammunition & Food.

 

[Merrivale]

That 50 likes, 50 dislikes....

See @podcat

The direction you guys have picked, is really swimming upstream.

No other dev dairies for any other PDX product get this kind of mixed response. People are upset, and imho, rightfully so. Perhaps you guys can still turn this around and sell your different vision for HOI4 to the fans, but as I said, youre swimming upstream to do it, its going to be very difficult to win those of us who are dissatisfied with the new direction of HOI4 without making some concessions to us.

A chunk of those dislikes are likely people frustrated that we've gotten two dev diaries in a row with no information on game development, which follows a general trend since release. Everyone at Paradox should learn from Wiz, he's far and away the best person they have at communicating with the fan base.

 

[llib]

as for air, I am not happy with it, but HOI3's air system was much worse in my book. People generally ignored it completely so they wouldnt have to mess with it.

From what I recall from HOI3 times when playing as major land force, my impression is that this is not entirely accurate, rather:
-Air was somewhat restricted by overall supply issues. It was at times also used partially to work around supply system limitations (deploying planes in certain areas could help offensive even without those planes being used - it was one of very very few ways how to try and affect the supply system which otherwise didn't allowed for whole lot of control).
-I definitely used air force ground support where I could, though having sufficient fighter force to intercept enemy bombers had higher priority.
-Stacking system was problematic, because it lead to unrealistic battles of superstacks completely out of any control.
-There was still problem at times with some units dying (typically first unit on the list would take brunt of damage and over time it could even be evaporated unless handled manually).
-You have removed all the HQ tiers and theatres, so this system become impossible anyway.
I think that current system would work better with dynamic air "theatres" (both over land and sea zones) rather than current artificially static air zones. But of course AI would need to be taught to manage it which is likely huge task. But also in a way, no matter what system AI would need to be able to prioritize it correctly, which it clearly doesn't currently (unless this changed in last patch - haven't played it yet since it was released) - I mean stuff like German/Italian AI keeping 2000 fighters over Alps all the time where noone is even attacking while using unescorted bombers elsewhere which then get killed ofc.)

 

[Uglyr]

Back to topic: for me it's not so interesting comparing old/new games. If you can't write about what you are working at, perhaps you can write about game development in genaral at PDX. Or history of HOI4 developement - what was behind the walls. Or some game statistic. Something like DD7 or DD51.

 

[Riktol]

@podcat

We also moved to larger areas to get a better manage the complexity for calculations and display to player.

I'm asking mostly out of curiosity but it seems to me that the 'natural' unit of area for things such as supply would be the state, was there ever a point pre-alpha or in alpha that this was the case and if so, what was the reason for moving to groups of states?

 

[billcorr]

the HOI3 map was much clearer with its information

Hidden gem of an observation: Earlier versions of HoI displayed maps that provided instant and clean visual information to the gamer.

In this game of "Design a wargame," I'd encourage Paradox to choose the "cartography" focus instead of the "artwork" focus.

Example: when zoomed out in HoI4, the terrain disappears.
Suggestion: allow players to see terrain at different levels of zoom out.

HoI4 is a great game based on a long tradition. Dip into that tradition and drink deeply from that part which was good: basic cartography

Keep up the good work, Paradox!

 

[Art1985]

That's weird, I'm using a 3.2GHz i5 and a 970 and the speeds in 1945 are still fine even when the war is still going. Though, if you're in there moving troops the slowdown is a lot less noticeable than if you're observing from afar.

I have q6600 and I don't have any problems on speed 5. Only in mp I have problems (internet speed 400mb)

 

[aono]

I'd say supply system was the best in 3rd, but upgrade, reinforce and training... that's where 4th is unparallel for me.

 

[ltccone]

I remember in my first HOI 1 game I loaded paratroopers into transports, and forgot about them. When I finally remembered them, they had starved to death sitting in the planes...

I think HOI4 is by far the best iteration of the game and I have played over 900 hours, according to Steam.

Civ 6 comes out soon, so I need to get in as much playing time as I can..

 

[seattle]

Hearts of Iron IVLooking at the system I think gameplay went up on all accounts here. I think the system feels more realistic and immersive when looking at how you need to build exact equipment, but with fuel costs calculated into production of equipment rather than when using them (like on ships). There are some suspension of disbelief issues here we want to work on in the future.

The only real issue with the HoI4 system is that it assumes an average lifetime-consumption of a product. Production costs the amount of oil that a tank is expected to consume during its lifetime for instance.
While that works out fine for the most part, there are some problematic exceptions to be considered.

Prominent example:
Historical Japan was crippled by the US oil embargo and wasn't able to sustain an offensive war without a constant oil supply.
When I play HoI4 Japan, I produce enough ships and planes before the embargo. Should I ever get embargoed and my access to oil is limited, I don't run into the same problems cause the system plays into my hands. I simply have to consider two things:
1. design units with 100%+ reliability
2. remember that you're fighting China and won't face any mentionable resistance in the air and sea.
==> Japan will hardly lose any planes and ships and thus vastly extends the assumed average life expectancy. You will soon reach the point where your planes and ships have already consumed the production cost of oil and from then on run for free. Without resistance they will run forever on the initial production cost.

A contrasting example:
Battle of Britain. The battle for air supremacy is a fight of attrition, whoever can produce more will win (with marginal technological modifiers). The average plane will live a day or two. The oil production cost though was calculated for a much longer time. This is where the system doesn't work either.