HOI4 - Development Diary - October 5th 2016

[Had a dad]

Secondly, I'd like to add that I'm disappointed that the true crux of this game will be in paid DLC. I paid the price for the game. It should work.

That's like ordering a burger and getting no patty and them telling you at the counter that's extra.

it does work, just not as you would like it to....

oh yeah and the bug fixes are free the DLC has content that you can choose to buy or not...

 

[adam_grif]

I'm with you on the ace part, but I don't see the huge problem with historical events sometimes going a way that they could have gone but did not. We don't want everybody always doing exactly what they did in history, right? Or is this just a problem with flavor stuff?

For me, when I'm rolling with historical focuses I also want things to go as they did. I want Trotsky to die, Amelia to die, and the Hindenburg to burn.

 

[Jorlem]

yeah its an actual issue. You cant really make a game on release with the same amount of content as a game thats had years of expansions and patches, so we are for sure competing mostly with our own games from before

I think part of this expectation issue is based in the EU3 -> EU4 transition, as EU4 was clearly built using EU3 as a foundation, drawing flavor events, and mechanics (or clear evolutions of said mechanics) from it, and replaced what was removed with mechanics that were just as expansive. I recall some posts or livestream interviews at some point by CK2 devs saying that a hypothetical CK3 would do something similar, integrating CK2's DLCs into the base game and building from there.

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people were expecting, consciously or subconsciously, something along those lines for HoI4, adapting the old events and some mechanics to work with the new things that were being added.

 

[rjohansen]

I'm with you on the ace part, but I don't see the huge problem with historical events sometimes going a way that they could have gone but did not. We don't want everybody always doing exactly what they did in history, right? Or is this just a problem with flavor stuff?

Only with flavor/event-stuff.

 

[rcemezodiac]

my only issue with the supply system is one I encountered recently is the war was near the end, Germany had maybe 20 provinces and the only major city left was Vienna, we had to take it, and all together the Soviets, and Allies had some 400 divisions to germanys 120, crammed into a tiny front, so many units, no organization on any of them due to stacking penalty and lack of supply. war lasted an extra 8 months, I told the troops it would be over by Christmas!

 

[Wilbry]

my only issue with the supply system is one I encountered recently is the war was near the end, Germany had maybe 20 provinces and the only major city left was Vienna, we had to take it, and all together the Soviets, and Allies had some 400 divisions to germanys 120, crammed into a tiny front, so many units, no organization on any of them due to stacking penalty and lack of supply. war lasted an extra 8 months, I told the troops it would be over by Christmas!

Why was that an issue?

 

[albso437]

For me personally, this game is unplayable yes. And I mean unplayable in that sense that I just cannot stand playing it. For some, for my nephew at 12, this is a good game. For me, not at all. I want a historical, plausible and authentic game about WW2. My nephew really couldn't care less (I guess) and also doesn't really know that much about history. And even if he did, I guess he doesn't care. It's not unplayable in the sense that it crashes. For me it has not. Although late game is kind of a disaster, got a rather new PC, but it is still insanely slow and unresponsive late-game. Haven't tested it to late game in the latest expansion though, so it might have been fixed.

For me personally however. This game is a disaster mostly immersion-wise. It just feels very "off" for me, the fake stories, silly names, simplification, animations, map (?) and overall "feel" of the game is just too wrong for me. I do hope however, that some of my concerns will be fixed in a patch, expansion, DLC or even mod some day. I have bought the game after all, and invested hundreds of hours "trying to accept" it already. After these hundreds hours I came to the acceptance that this game is not for me, now, in it's current state... However, it might be in the future.

• Oil, fuel and supplies really needs to come back
• Correct names of divisions needs to come back
• OOB needs to come back
• Mapmodes needs to come back (flat, political, simple terrain, supply etc)
• Air-forces needs a total overhaul, air units/leaders need to come back
• Naval warfare needs a total overhaul
• Not sure what to call it, but the way divisions "merge" now is just catastrophical, you loose all overview. In my opinion, all the previous HOI games was better in this regards.
• Historical settings needs to actually mean something, I don't want silly fake countries popping up, I don't want Amelia Earhart becoming a Ace - I just cringed when I saw that happen. If I wanted a fantasy game I would have bought it, I bought an "authentic WW2 war experience" as you yourself call it

There are a lot of want's as well for me. But these are my absolute needs. If they don't come, so be it, then I will give up on the game. Also, I am fine still playing HOI3 too, in my opinion, the best game from Paradox so far. HOI4 shows some promise, like divisional designer and production of different equipment, but in my opinion, this is also it.

I will still buy expansions for your other games, like EU and CK, but for HOI4 I will have to see what the expansions actually does first I guess. I am totally fine waiting for 5-6 expansions and then buying them all in once too, if the combined expansions gives me a game I like.

I don't say that I don't want some or even all of the things that you list, but...

It was perfectly clear that fuel, supplies, OOB etc wasn't in the game.
So that can hardly have come as a surprise for you.

 

[Krafty]

Me personally I knew what I was getting, but at the time back during those early dev dairies said "We should probably have fuel, supplies, oob, simplified terrain map mode, etc" and it was basically a "Well those didnt work and no one wants them" situation.

Oooooooo that irony.

 

[Adar1]

Didn't you think about implementing possibility to strenghten the line infantry batllions with Mortars/LMGs/HMGs so you can choose whether you wan't a standard infantry batallion with hand weapons or reinforced with additional MGs and Mortars?

you have it with the mode "Division Equipment extended", one of the most brilliant http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=729974376

 

[rjohansen]

I don't say that I don't want some or even all of the things that you list, but...

It was perfectly clear that fuel, supplies, OOB etc wasn't in the game.
So that can hardly have come as a surprise for you.

I always thought these where not in from the start. But would be added later. OOB will come back, I have seen that stated. Perhaps not in the same form as in HOI3 - but the way it is now is so incredible stupid. I personally hope for a way more advanced version than HOI3. We will just have to wait and see what they come up with.

 

[rcemezodiac]

Why was that an issue?

supply zones have a max capcity of units it can hold, especially when infrastructure is constantly being damaged by battle, and you have 50 divisions in a region that can support 16, you have an issue, now spread this across the entire line.

 

[Gamer_1745]

I spend alot of time playing the game, I gave a positive steam review, I stream playing on youtube and twitch.
....Lots of Good stuff.....

I think of podcat as a kind of online friend (not sure what he thinks of me) and love most of the work he is doing! I also fully know the first release of HOI IV is not as good as it will get in time!

I hope my disagreements with elements of HOI IV don't come off as attacks on HOI IV, @podcat & the rest of the development team! I think they are a bunch of great people! I know some here on the forum do make those attacks, please everyone don't associate me with them!

HoI IV is a good game & in time is going to be a Great game!

 

[Ksyr]

For me, when I'm rolling with historical focuses I also want things to go as they did. I want Trotsky to die, Amelia to die, and the Hindenburg to burn.

And Germany to loose in 1945.

 

[BjornB]

haha

It is possible to interpret his words " what we do is to make games for ourselves" in a gentlier or more wishful way, such as " in the way our intellect understands it may be the best"

No, not really. It should be obvious to most people reading this forum that making something that would please everyone is impossible. What we aim to do is a game that we ourselves enjoy. Not because it's intellectually superior, but because it's the game we want to play.

 

[Leo2]

HoI IV is a good game & in time is going to be a Great game!

Lol, it's like banana, it's ripens at the customer, lol.

I'm out until the next patch, game uninstalled, next patch (which comes with the DLC I think) i will give it a try. If it will be the same "glorious" AI, HOI IV is done for me and i will have to wait for HOI V.

But maybe PD will release Europa Universalis Rome II, this would be a dream

 

[Anraz]

What we aim to do is a game that we ourselves enjoy.

For several years I had been believing it is the best way, but after spending sometime within marketing department I found out that people who design usually do not buy product designed by themselves, so they are not customers, but they believe they think like their customers. Even if they do sometimes or for a period of time, eventually they don`t. Please bear in mind my statement.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Behead those who insult DH.

 

[Balesir]

But surviving also kills my immersion. What I mean is that historical stories should just ADD flavor/immersion, not alter history. Making her survive, just reminds you that this is not real. Same with other story events. In my opinion these kind of small events, should just make you "feel" you are in the correct era. Now it does not.

OK, so you want to draw a sharp distinction between events and choices that are "in the game" and events and choices that are "not in the game". I can see that this could work, as long as the pre-set "flavour" events merely give reason for other in-game assumptions. Having the Hindenberg crash, for example, explains why military and cargo airships are not a thing in the game; making them (at least for cargo) if the crash doesn't happen would be plausible but not essential - a near miss might be scare enough to have the same effect. But where do you stop with this being able to constrain the player's decisions?

Becoming a ace is just.... insane.

But becoming an ace is just horrendous and I really can't understand the reasons behind it. It might be because it is "political correct" that female and males are the exact "same" - at least in some Nordic countries it is so. They even have kindergarten that won't reference kids as either HE or SHE but rather a new fake word that means nothing. However, this might be the reason, but modern feminism has no place in the years 1930-1945 in my honest opinion.

There were (two) women aces; they flew for the USSR (see here and here).
In Britain, where unlike Earhart Amy Johnson had survived the '30s, women* flew combat aircraft more or less throughout the UK involvement in the war** - they flew aircraft delivery missions in combat zones but not combat missions. (*: Including 27 female American volunteers; **: From January 1940).
The US, somewhat belatedly, formed the WASPs which were, unlike in the UK version, actually trained as AAF pilots. A House bill to militarise the WASPs was narrowly defeated in June 1944.
In Germany, in many ways a bastion of male martial monopoly, women flew as test pilots, one of the most hazardous jobs of all!

Had Earhart survived what was to be her last flight, I can well see her seeking out opportunities to fly in combat and show that women had value in that role - and I am sure that, had she done so, she would have proved her point. Social protectionism was broken down in many areas due to the exigencies of a global and existential war; the idea that the monopoly on combat flying for men could not have been broken outside of the Soviet Union is mere historical determinism. If a few events had gone differently - perhaps including Earhart completing her record-breaking flight - then that taboo, too, might have been toppled.

 

[Gamer_1745]

Earhart is considered by many to not be that good of a pilot. I think it was something like 6 hard landing in reasonably good conditions that either caused major damage or totaled her aircraft. She was a great personality! But she was no Hanna Reitsch or even Elly Beinhorn.

 

[Art1985]

Please keep the following in mind!

- There is no need to post the same concern in every single new thread. Doing so actually does more harm than good (especially to your cause). Please keep discussions on certain complaints to dedicated threads for best effect.
- In this thread there are ~120 people posting. Yesterday ~50K people played HoI4. Even though your opinions are valuable to us, what is written here is not representative of the entire player base.
- Confirmation bias is a real thing, and it's very easy to find in an environment like this forum.

We are aware of most concerns and complaints brought forth in this thread, but please continue to post constructive feedback!

I also playing this game and I have same complains like those who posting here. And I have big number of friends who are playing hoi4 with me and they have same complains, but they don't like to participate in forums.
Maybe you could add some kind voting system in the game where people could show their opinions on what they would like to see in this game. Because many players don't want to go to some kind forums for this.
For me it is strange to say that 120 active people from forums are nothing. I think same % of those 50k players would support what those 120 wrote here.