HOI4 - Development Diary - October 5th 2016

[Adar1]

about your mothers

?????

Secondly, I'd like to add that I'm disappointed that the true crux of this game will be in paid DLC. I paid the price for the game. It should work.

That's like ordering a burger and getting no patty and them telling you at the counter that's extra.

It's not about and round money

 

[rjohansen]

For me personally, this game is unplayable yes. And I mean unplayable in that sense that I just cannot stand playing it. For some, for my nephew at 12, this is a good game. For me, not at all. I want a historical, plausible and authentic game about WW2. My nephew really couldn't care less (I guess) and also doesn't really know that much about history. And even if he did, I guess he doesn't care. It's not unplayable in the sense that it crashes. For me it has not. Although late game is kind of a disaster, got a rather new PC, but it is still insanely slow and unresponsive late-game. Haven't tested it to late game in the latest expansion though, so it might have been fixed.

For me personally however. This game is a disaster mostly immersion-wise. It just feels very "off" for me, the fake stories, silly names, simplification, animations, map (?) and overall "feel" of the game is just too wrong for me. I do hope however, that some of my concerns will be fixed in a patch, expansion, DLC or even mod some day. I have bought the game after all, and invested hundreds of hours "trying to accept" it already. After these hundreds hours I came to the acceptance that this game is not for me, now, in it's current state... However, it might be in the future.

• Oil, fuel and supplies really needs to come back
• Correct names of divisions needs to come back
• OOB needs to come back
• Mapmodes needs to come back (flat, political, simple terrain, supply etc)
• Air-forces needs a total overhaul, air units/leaders need to come back
• Naval warfare needs a total overhaul
• Not sure what to call it, but the way divisions "merge" now is just catastrophical, you loose all overview. In my opinion, all the previous HOI games was better in this regards.
• Historical settings needs to actually mean something, I don't want silly fake countries popping up, I don't want Amelia Earhart becoming a Ace - I just cringed when I saw that happen. If I wanted a fantasy game I would have bought it, I bought an "authentic WW2 war experience" as you yourself call it

There are a lot of want's as well for me. But these are my absolute needs. If they don't come, so be it, then I will give up on the game. Also, I am fine still playing HOI3 too, in my opinion, the best game from Paradox so far. HOI4 shows some promise, like divisional designer and production of different equipment, but in my opinion, this is also it.

I will still buy expansions for your other games, like EU and CK, but for HOI4 I will have to see what the expansions actually does first I guess. I am totally fine waiting for 5-6 expansions and then buying them all in once too, if the combined expansions gives me a game I like.

 

[Krafty]

Yup. People just arent as binary as some want to believe.

One persons "unplayable" is not someone elses "unplayable". For one its crashing, for another its enjoyment, for another still its a bug or specific feature or lack thereof. Its subjective and its not all offensive angry rambling. Some of it is, then some of it is Rjohansen's very constructive post.

 

[Adar1]

I don't want Amelia Earhart becoming a Ace

how does this bother you....?

and if it was Lydia Littwak, the white Lily of Stalingrad instead, would it do right?

 

[rjohansen]

how does this bother you....?

and if it was Lydia Littwak, the white Lily of Stalingrad instead, would it do right?

Because it is implausible... It is so implausible that it never would have happen. Also, she actually died...

But the aces in this game is just another thing I am not a fan of. They are fake, the images looks like comic cartoons and you just wreck any immersion in my personal opinion. Why the need to have fake aces? Why can't at least real aces be used? Or why even have aces at all... I mean, they removed leaders, but added aces, what is the logic behind that?

The events like Earhart should just add "spice" to the game in my opinion, we know what happen - they should actually have added a lot more historical flavor stories. However, making her survive just make the historical feel go out the window.

 

[MGL 86]

1. Province names - so much immersion there
2. OOB based battle planner. I can`t explain it. But if it is possible, it would be awesome.

 

[Uglyr]

The original post of this thread has 110 Agree's and 90 Disagree's.

That's not "just some within the community," that's a very overwhelming minority. In fact, it's 45% on the nose. So the "this statement does not speak for the majority of the community, not even close" isn't true. It's very close.

The question is "what was voted about OP?". I voted "disagree" not about supply system or HOI4, but about topic - comparing HOI1-2-3-4. Anyone (magazines, casual forumites, other people) can compare games. So why to waste precious DD resource? PDX workers has something that others don't - knowledge of past, present and future inside the walls. So I'd prefer to know about future. If it's forbidden - about what's going now. If it's forbidden - about what was in the past inside PDX office (rejected ideas, curious solutions to problems, thoughts that lead to what we have). If something can be wrote by anyone else - leave it to anyone else.

 

[Shebaloso]

For me personally, this game is unplayable yes. And I mean unplayable in that sense that I just cannot stand playing it. For some, for my nephew at 12, this is a good game. For me, not at all. I want a historical, plausible and authentic game about WW2. My nephew really couldn't care less (I guess) and also doesn't really know that much about history. And even if he did, I guess he doesn't care. It's not unplayable in the sense that it crashes. For me it has not. Although late game is kind of a disaster, got a rather new PC, but it is still insanely slow and unresponsive late-game. Haven't tested it to late game in the latest expansion though, so it might have been fixed.

For me personally however. This game is a disaster mostly immersion-wise. It just feels very "off" for me, the fake stories, silly names, simplification, animations, map (?) and overall "feel" of the game is just too wrong for me. I do hope however, that some of my concerns will be fixed in a patch, expansion, DLC or even mod some day. I have bought the game after all, and invested hundreds of hours "trying to accept" it already. After these hundreds hours I came to the acceptance that this game is not for me, now, in it's current state... However, it might be in the future.

• Oil, fuel and supplies really needs to come back
• Correct names of divisions needs to come back
• OOB needs to come back
• Mapmodes needs to come back (flat, political, simple terrain, supply etc)
• Air-forces needs a total overhaul, air units/leaders need to come back
• Naval warfare needs a total overhaul
• Not sure what to call it, but the way divisions "merge" now is just catastrophical, you loose all overview. In my opinion, all the previous HOI games was better in this regards.
• Historical settings needs to actually mean something, I don't want silly fake countries popping up, I don't want Amelia Earhart becoming a Ace - I just cringed when I saw that happen. If I wanted a fantasy game I would have bought it, I bought an "authentic WW2 war experience" as you yourself call it

There are a lot of want's as well for me. But these are my absolute needs. If they don't come, so be it, then I will give up on the game. Also, I am fine still playing HOI3 too, in my opinion, the best game from Paradox so far. HOI4 shows some promise, like divisional designer and production of different equipment, but in my opinion, this is also it.

I will still buy expansions for your other games, like EU and CK, but for HOI4 I will have to see what the expansions actually does first I guess. I am totally fine waiting for 5-6 expansions and then buying them all in once too, if the combined expansions gives me a game I like.

Although i don't see the problem of different outcomes for historical events (what's the problem with Amelia living ingame? Either you want full historicity or allow enough space for a conceivable alternate history to flourish. You want to lead Germany to victory but the woman finishing her flight around the world succesfully is suddenly a problem because it is not as it happened historically? You cannot advocate for one without advocating for the other) I think i generally agree with you.

I don't know, the game feels too bland. I started a soviet union run last week and i just realized that, having lost the euphoria from launch, it's a very simple game. Too simple in my opinion. The game is nothing more than allocating factories to what equipment is needed. Every other single thing is simply resolved with a few pontual clicks. There are no mechanics behind them. No diplomacy, Politics is reduced to spending 150 PP to hire whatever ideologic speaker you want, air force can be completely ignored, as is the case with the navies (you either start controlling the seas or you don't) and so forth. Even research is not important, as the vast majority of powers stand with 5 slots (usa only gains the 6th late game), and as the sense of priority is null (there is only one main tech and one improvement in small arms, for example), you can simply research everything. It's really just about moving armies and ensuring you have enough resources to equip them.

I knew the devs wanted to simplify the game to appeal to a larger audience, but i think they completely missed the point. This is far from an "authentic WWII experience".

 

[safe-keeper]

The original post of this thread has 110 Agree's and 90 Disagree's.

That's not "just some within the community," that's a very overwhelming minority. In fact, it's 45% on the nose. So the "this statement does not speak for the majority of the community, not even close" isn't true. It's very close.

[something about how a single such "poll" isn't representative about a whole game's community here]

Remove the production system and the new graphics from Hearts of Iron 4 and it's a flop. That's it. The AI has not improved. The National Focus tree has given you the mirage of choice, and the logistics/supply system is an absolute joke.

I shouldn't have to point this out, but: you shouldn't confuse features that are currently not working as they should, like the AI, with features that work as intended.

Otherwise, you have to compare HOI3 at launch with HOI4 at launch, and trust me, HOI4 would win hands down.

 

[No idea]

Although i don't see the problem of different outcomes for historical events (what's the problem with Amelia living ingame? Either you want full historicity or allow enough space for a conceivable alternate history to flourish. You want to lead Germany to victory but the woman finishing her flight around the world succesfully is suddenly a problem because it is not as it happened historically? You cannot advocate for one without advocating for the other) I think i generally agree with you.

I don't know, the game feels too bland. I started a soviet union run last week and i just realized that, having lost the euphoria from launch, it's a very simple game. Too simple in my opinion. The game is nothing more than allocating factories to what equipment is needed. Every other single thing is simply resolved with a few pontual clicks. There are no mechanics behind them. No diplomacy, Politics is reduced to spending 150 PP to hire whatever ideologic speaker you want, air force can be completely ignored, as is the case with the navies (you either start controlling the seas or you don't) and so forth. Even research is not important, as the vast majority of powers stand with 5 slots (usa only gains the 6th late game), and as the sense of priority is null (there is only one main tech and one improvement in small arms, for example), you can simply research everything. It's really just about moving armies and ensuring you have enough resources to equip them.

I knew the devs wanted to simplify the game to appeal to a larger audience, but i think they completely missed the point. This is far from an "authentic WWII experience".

I have to say I feel the same sometimes, especially once the funniest part of the game (the early one) ends.

 

[-JBurke-]

• Oil, fuel and supplies really needs to come back

If they fix anything in this game, anything at all, it's this. There is a reason why the Germans and Soviets threw millions of bodies against each other in attempts to prevent the other from controlling the oil in the southern part of the Soviet Union. As it stands right now oil fields are just a luxury in boosting production and that's it. You can literally build armies of Tiger IIs and your only penalty is how damn slow they are.

• Historical settings needs to actually mean something, I don't want silly fake countries popping up

This problem would be solved if they let us choose the name when we change government types. I understand what they did because some nations simply just didn't exist and without "fake countries" the country would just disappear, but the player having the option to decide a name the same way we're able to decide new faction names would go a long way in preventing stupid names like "Free American Empire" appearing when the player changes government type or puppets a nation (yes, we should be able to name puppets too. The Japanese did it so I don't see why we can't).

 

[Axe99]

yeah its an actual issue. You cant really make a game on release with the same amount of content as a game thats had years of expansions and patches, so we are for sure competing mostly with our own games from before

Too right, and it's also going to get a lot worse whenever it's time for CK3 or EU5. It's not something that bothers me at all (I know how you work, and am old and slow enough not to have my expectations formed by apple and orange comparisons) but there'll be some real marketing, development and probably production challenges for successors to the current group of 'long support' games. That said, you've got plenty of bright sparks in PI and PDS, so I'm sure you'll come up with something (and personally as long as you steer clear of CK or EU, they should have had time to find out how to sort it by the time HoI5, Vicky 4, Rome 3 or whatever it is you're working on at the time rolls around ). Credit to the studio for the long-support model, it leads to much better games in the long run .

 

[adam_grif]

Secondly, I'd like to add that I'm disappointed that the true crux of this game will be in paid DLC. I paid the price for the game. It should work.

That's like ordering a burger and getting no patty and them telling you at the counter that's extra.

For the hundredth time, these games get free patches along with every DLC and the game is continuously improved even for people who never buy any of it. Go compare footage of Vanilla CK2 at launch to CK2 as it exists in the base game on the current patch. Do the same for EU4.

The AI will get improved. Mechanics will be improved. Even if you don't buy the DLC.

 

[AlanC9]

Although i don't see the problem of different outcomes for historical events (what's the problem with Amelia living ingame? Either you want full historicity or allow enough space for a conceivable alternate history to flourish.

Huh? His problem was with Earhart being an Ace, not with Earhart surviving her flight.

 

[rjohansen]

Huh? His problem was with Earhart being an Ace, not with Earhart surviving her flight.

Actually it is both

Becoming a ace is just.... insane. But surviving also kills my immersion. What I mean is that historical stories should just ADD flavor/immersion, not alter history. Making her survive, just reminds you that this is not real. Same with other story events. In my opinion these kind of small events, should just make you "feel" you are in the correct era. Now it does not. But becoming an ace is just horrendous and I really can't understand the reasons behind it. It might be because it is "political correct" that female and males are the exact "same" - at least in some Nordic countries it is so. They even have kindergarten that won't reference kids as either HE or SHE but rather a new fake word that means nothing. However, this might be the reason, but modern feminism has no place in the years 1930-1945 in my honest opinion.

Becoming an ace = horrendously stupid and implausible
Just surviving = still stupid, kills my (personal) immersion

 

[Fulmen]

The alternate variations of the Hindenburg and Earhart events are silly IMO.

Also they still haven't fixed the fact that the game lets USA keep Earhart as an ace if she already is one, even if she disappears.

 

[adam_grif]

Part of my No Fun Allowed mod will involve removing all ahistoric outcomes to flavour events like that

If I ever get around to making it.

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

What kills my immersion is the German AI not doing anything, not Amelia Earhart surviving.

 

[AlanC9]

But surviving also kills my immersion. What I mean is that historical stories should just ADD flavor/immersion, not alter history.

I'm with you on the ace part, but I don't see the huge problem with historical events sometimes going a way that they could have gone but did not. We don't want everybody always doing exactly what they did in history, right? Or is this just a problem with flavor stuff?

 

[General Zborek PL]

Team wise we are working on the expansion right now and should be able to start doing dev diaries on it soon, but let me know how this one felt, is it interesting to take a trip down memory lane?

A very interesting trip as I already have forgotten the supply issues of HOI1 & HOI2 (I am with the series from very beginning of it - first time heard of Paradox Games with EU1 probably).

I like very much the HOI4 system of equipping divisions with specific type of equipment that match it's need, but the 'fuel feature' is very harrasing. You need oil to build tanks but you don't to make them drive? That is not - as written above - realistic and immersive. The Germans back in '44 during Ardennes Offensive did not turn around Allied units in Northern France to get them encircled. They went to Antwerpen to get American fuel for their tanks. And they stuck beacuse of it. Is there any way you do something about it?

BTW I came with idea. As everyone knows you can add units like additional at-guns, artys, scouts to your divisions. Didn't you think about implementing possibility to strenghten the line infantry batllions with Mortars/LMGs/HMGs so you can choose whether you wan't a standard infantry batallion with hand weapons or reinforced with additional MGs and Mortars?