HOI4 - Development Diary - 12th of August 2016 **read OP edit**

[DoctorDanny]

The problem is that some people there are confusing flawed AI with broken game. They can't understand that coding a decent AI for such a game requires time and a lot of work.

You're probably right, but in that case they really shouldn't have released the game until the AI was (more) fully done.

 

[Fawr]

Custom difficulty sounds like a good feature (I'm glad its modable, as fighting in Siberia would be even more of a pain if the Russians needed far less supplies than you did).

Personally one thing I've done in some HOI games is tweak the events to up the difficulty. For example if I want a decent US game or a challenging French game then I'll tweak the unholy alliance event chain to make it certain to happen. Something similar could be used to make the allies fight Germany earlier, or to make Franco join the Axis, or a whole range of diplomatic things. Just an idea of a different way of tweaking difficulty...

 

[ragupasta]

You're probably right, but in that case they really shouldn't have released the game until the AI was (more) fully done.

Don't forget that Paradox is a business that has time targets to meet as well as budgetary ones. It's not like modding where you can spend as much time as you wan't to iron things out before release.
Targets to meet, forecast's to follow and such. Yes the AI needs some improving, but none the less it will be improved.

 

[bowman2011]

The problem is that some people there are confusing flawed AI with broken game.

Well I think the two go hand in hand as it stands at the moment anyways. But it sounds fixable.

They can't understand that coding a decent AI for such a game requires time and a lot of work.

If any consumer base could understand that, it's those who have followed Paradox and their game building process. They may not understand the coding itself but I think maybe more credit is due here. Also, newer fans of the game, to which this installment of HOI was targeted at, are probably having some difficulty adjusting to this sort of "work in progress", game building culture. You're sort of left on your own as to figuring out how that process works.


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[Meglok]

balancing what WT should or could take into effect should be a thread all to itself... imho

I have posted a couple of threads on the issue and the WT issues have been discussed in many threads. You can go into defines and rebalance the numbers to reduce the effects of actions upon tension, at least for Europe. The issue is China and Japan (again). The design of the tension system causes tension to rise for each state annexed/puppeted. Japan taking China is a LOT of provinces. And that happens almost every time now in SP. Yet if Japan is bogged down or even worse gets chased out of Asia then the Allies can focus their entire arsenal on Europe. AI Germany has enough issues as it is, all of the ahistorical Allied division spam coming it's way is game over.

If you were to reduce the effects of annexing to a very low number and raised the cost of justifying and the effects of instituting certain focus choices it would probably be possible to set up a tension flow chart that had tension hitting historical levels of about 40 at Danzig, 60 at firing Maginot, 80 at Barbarossa, and pushing 100 around fall of 1941. This would require historical choices, going off the historical path would result in lower or higher penalties.

This change in WT would require reviewing all the focus trees, affect a lot of mods, and I am still not sure it would completely fix it. I have tabled it and any other ideas at least until after patch 1.2 comes out. I would like to see the changes and even better have an idea of what is on the design team's radar as far as fixes and content changes. I don't want to spend hours working on this if they are going to change major aspects of the game.

 

[pommiebastard]

Like a few others have said, I'm sad to see how the pre-launch optimism of this community seems to have curdled into bitterness (some of which gives the impression of being seriously entitled...)

For what it's worth, I've enjoyed the time I've put in so far on the game, and it was definitely in one of the more polished states at launch I can remember (HOI2 had some amusing moments, EU3 was all over the place with the AI...).

Sure, there's stuff to improve, but Paradox have one of the best records of any games company I've ever bought from in doing that, so I'm more than willing to trust them. Everything I've heard so far in the post-release Dev Diaries makes me hopeful that this is well under way.

I've seen how EU4 has evolved over the last 3 years, so I trust the teams on HOI4 and Stellaris to steadily improve from what are currently fun experiences (with some limitations and glitches) to the point where they are so immersive that they bleed off hours from my life in a terrifying torrent.

Good luck to @podcat and the rest of the team - at least some of us appreciate what you're doing! (and Hetzers gonna Hetz...)

 

[DKoW]

I am also in the "I think it's great" camp, but I'm not blind to it's faults.

My personal hate is that the AI just stops advancing sometimes, or just doesn't advance at all. I am talking mostly about France, but other countries do the same. What I believe the problem with that is, is that the AI is constantly shifting the battle plans and always waiting for the divisions to be ready to attack, then they add a new division to the army and wait for it to ready up, then the plans are changed, and it's a never ending cycle.

I don't care if the AI has its units in place, or that it gets a planning bonus, it that it thinks its too risky a plan. I just want it to attack me. Which is why I want the AI to be set to always attack.

Other than this, the game is perfectly fine to me. I've had lots of fun in the 100+ hours I've played of it so far. Definitely more fun than I had playing HOI3. HOI4 is a far superior game to it, even now....in my opinion of course.


Question for the Devs, will you be adding more nation specific National Focuses to the other countries in the game like you did with Poland? I've been playing about with some of the ones available on the Steam workshop and they help make the minor countries way more fun.

 

[FOARP]

The bitterness and hate on the forum lately has definitely made me less inclined to visit here. It's not justified, it's not helpful.

 

[Jorlem]

Exactly this.

I want to add my name to the list people who enjoy the game as it is now, are happy with the dedication of Paradox team and hate the trash talk that happened in this thread. This young, ambitious grand strategy game has room for improvement, but the basics are solid and the additions I've seen on Crusader Kings over the years make me confident that it will be. (yes non-constructive complainers, it does. Sue me.)

So, dear Paradox people, don't let the rude guys draw your spirit down. Keep up the work, I am looking foward to the next patches!

Add my name to that list as well.

we could debate the "historicalness or lack of" of the starting template, but my comment was directed at his "specialist" div that you could make in hoi3. What you are referencing is imo different as it was a deliberate design feature, to improve the template via XP gain and give you something to do during the early years with the little that you can accrue (unless you can send volunteers in which case you can accrue a fair amount...)

I think that giving a base template for the unit types is something of a happy medium between what we have now (countries needing to spend XP to know they should deploy the units they've researched), and what some people are calling for (free redesign of all divisions.)

Another way of doing it might be to create a division template upon researching a new unit type that is empty, save for a single battalion of the new unit, and a "credit" of 25 XP that can only be spent on that division.

I think showing a feature and talking about fixing the #1 most complained about ai issues on the forum is pretty substantial. This is where your expectations should be sitting. What would you have wanted to see to call it substantial? Remember, we arent in the process of writing expansion diaries so I'll mostly talk about whats currently going on in the team.

I think people have been spoiled by the Stellaris dev diaries, as the dev diaries for the upcoming Heinlein patch have felt utterly massive, with no DLC in sight.

 

[jackda]

You're probably right, but in that case they really shouldn't have released the game until the AI was (more) fully done.

It is sometimes easier to fix AI bugs when thousand of people have identified them. It is totally impossible for few devs/betas to simulate enough game situations in such a short while. I don't think that PI has the founds to pay ten years of development and testing...

 

[Farflamex]

I'm a games-programmer myself and I know that when I've finished a game, I don't ever want to even look at it again. Looking at the code, for the millionth time, is painful. Testing, re-testing and tweaking is boring and not the reason you got into gaming or game-programming. You just want to ditch it and start on something new, fresh and exciting. Games programmer's heads are filled with ideas for other games, but you just haven't got the time or energy to work on them all. AI programming is boring and difficult - people keep making the mistake of thinking of AI as some sort of generic program. It's not, it's different and needs to tweaked and tested for every game, every patch, every update.

As much as I'd like to get Hoi4 back off the shelf and start playing it again, I personally think the modern approach of releasing games to the public early is a good thing, in the long run. It's frustrating for us, but I think we should try to be patient and accept that it eventually leads to a better game. The public will play the game, explore every nook and cranny and report the faults to the developers, who can then fix it without having to play through the game themselves. Believe me, you don't want to play your own game after 4 years or so of development.

Hoi4 is a great game, it just needs a competent Ai and I'll be playing it non-stop. Hoi3 was terrible until the final version as are most games today. We should support Paradox and if you're currently bored of Hoi4, play something else for a month, then try again.

 

[shnukshnuk]

Add Manchukuo back in! its bloody stupid that it isnt in the game.

 

[Broletariat90]

Iron Wolf was a Lithuanian organisation (not quite a party) of the prewar era, with a name based on the story of the founding of Vilnius.
It was mainly notorious for a failed coup in the 30s, and then later collaboration with the German occupation.

It might sound like a joke name, but it's pretty well-rooted in history!

Even if it was well rooted in history, being inspired by a past coup, the name sounds bad. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't call the state the would create, Iron Wolf Lithuania. I mean the National Socialists didn't call their government, National Socialist Germany and same goes with the Italians. And I'm pretty sure a pre-war fascist regime in France would not name itself after Vichy. That really needs to be fixed. I'm just saying. And this goes for a lot of other names for countries in this game. But its your call in the end, you are the developer. Just a little constructive criticism.

 

[Jamey]

think toxic is a dangerous word. People are frustrated, and are having a hard time expressing it in a way that leaves room for an informed discussion. Maybe when the dust settles, we will be able to work together on improving the game further.

I, for one, would like that.

I understand the frustration, but I wish that people would take a step back before posting and think about what they are saying and how it will be perceived. The lack of visual and auditory cues when posting on Internet forums (or sending an email!) tend to cause a gap between what people think they are saying and how others perceive what they are saying. When people get emotional, that gap often increases.

 

[Broletariat90]

I'm a games-programmer myself and I know that when I've finished a game, I don't ever want to even look at it again. Looking at the code, for the millionth time, is painful. Testing, re-testing and tweaking is boring and not the reason you got into gaming or game-programming. You just want to ditch it and start on something new, fresh and exciting. Games programmer's heads are filled with ideas for other games, but you just haven't got the time or energy to work on them all. AI programming is boring and difficult - people keep making the mistake of thinking of AI as some sort of generic program. It's not, it's different and needs to tweaked and tested for every game, every patch, every update.

As much as I'd like to get Hoi4 back off the shelf and start playing it again, I personally think the modern approach of releasing games to the public early is a good thing, in the long run. It's frustrating for us, but I think we should try to be patient and accept that it eventually leads to a better game. The public will play the game, explore every nook and cranny and report the faults to the developers, who can then fix it without having to play through the game themselves. Believe me, you don't want to play your own game after 4 years or so of development.

Hoi4 is a great game, it just needs a competent Ai and I'll be playing it non-stop. Hoi3 was terrible until the final version as are most games today. We should support Paradox and if you're currently bored of Hoi4, play something else for a month, then try again.

That's what I'm doing, maybe I start the game up to poke around and look at the various trees but I'm just reading a book and playing other games to distract myself. It will be fine in the end.

 

[aruon]

Add Manchukuo back in! its bloody stupid that it isnt in the game.

not really. it messed with the japan AI in all prior HOIs and made it more difficult to go through with a chinese invasion. while not ideal, dismissing the barely existent manchukuo in favor of a properly working major nation AI is by far the better choice. believe me, this has been discussed to death since pre-release.


on a related note, i'm glad to see more options to turbobuff the AI in addition to the regular fixes. keep it up PDS!

 

[jju_57]

removed - Had a dad

I for one love the idea of buffing individual nations. It was one of the HIGH points in BlackIce. If I play as Germany I want the SOV to be supper tough. If playing USA I want Japan to easily defeat China and take over the SE Pacific.

Now if you guys don't want then then fine. But I DO WANT IT so don't go speaking for me.

Now there are alos new players that have never played a HOI game and may have a hard time winning. If the game was so hard that it only challenged the pros then it would kill the franchise. But most likely some of you don't care about that as it's only ME ME ME stuff.

 

[Bolshevik_1924]

I like the custom difficulty slider, could make for some fun situations.

 

[fredgiblet]

I like the custom difficulty slider, could make for some fun situations.

Turn Italy way up and everyone else down, then they can maybe meet the levels they wished they could.

 

[Bolshevik_1924]

Turn Italy way up and everyone else down, then they can maybe meet the levels they wished they could.

I still doubt it though haha

I wish you could do it for every country, would be hilarious to crank Ireland for example all the way up and just watch it conquer half of Europe.