HoI4 DevDiary - Tank Designer

[goodcigar]

Bahaha! I doubt we can properly model this in the game. The transmission problem is a sign of WW2 Germany's poor industry and low quality/quantity of production, but in-game Germany is usually an economic powerhouse.

I think we can still see it if the devs decide to not remove the negative reliability bug.

I believe one of the reasons for the Germans' reliability problem was quality of available materials. They didn't have the materials they needed so they used lesser materials which weren't as good. The game doesn't model this at all.

It was also because of complexity I believe. German designs were high performance but too complex for a total war like WW2.

 

[DerGrößteRitter]

If it's any consolation, there's no doctrines to directly research, so that should free up some space

Elaborate?

 

[CaptainBruh]

Elaborate?

doctrine research tab is gone, we suspect it's been relocated to the hat icon next to the old logistics

 

[CaptainBruh]

I wonder, if i create a tank with 0% speed but a massive amount of armor, we can essentially create maginot line divisions that can moved around via strat redeoply (unless this is being reworked with the railroad update)

potential exploit if i make a 40width heavy tank division that is impossible to break. make 3 of these so it doesnt get encirlced easily, then just park it on an important location (for example, high level port or capital)

 

[Velocioped]

@Archangel85 kinda wish motorized and mechanized equipment was going to be designed through here. It looks like armored cars will be?

 

[JackMcManus]

we can essentially create maginot line divisions that can moved around via strat redeoply (unless this is being reworked with the railroad update)

this is the nearest thing to an armored train

 

[ShadowHF]

Can´t wait to design some "interesting" tanks.

 

[lonewolf371]

I agree 100%

Ship, Tank or Plane designers have no place at all in a Grand Strategy Game. Looking historically if a tank was designed with feature X or Y mattered mainly in the individual combat squad level, less on a tactical level, almost nothing on a strategic level certainly did not matter at all on a GRAND strategical level.

Only delusional, megalomaniac or severely drugged leaders of a nation would meddle in actual design of equipment for these reasons. Is it fun to design a tank/ship/whatever? Maybe... but it is part of the development of HoI4 which is changing the games direction firmly away from a Grand strategy game and towards an ahistorical sandbox playground in a WW2 setting.

It would make much more sense to add features and detail to the things the leader did care about like if the nations shipbuilding industries could produce the 10000 landing craft needed for the invasion. To give a historical example of scale USA produced well over 100 times the Industrial cost of Battleships worth of civilian and invasion shipping during the war and Japan/Axis lost to a large part because they couldn't manage to do the same.

With a proper naval logistical system tied into airpower and balanced sub raiding the Pacific island hopping campaign and the defining actions of the entire Japanese/USA struggle in the war wouldn't be a joke that 99.9% of all players just skip because there is no point at all in doing it.

Although in the theme of this next patch / expansion probably it would make more sense to focus a bit more on Lend Lease mechanics like fixing the broken fuel LL that allows magical and instant teleportation of as much fuel as you can produce across the Atlantic and Pacific alike by just using the "once" option.

This comment on designs is wrong from a historical perspective. A simple glance at German pre-war planning around Panzer III and Panzer IV variants, or a bit of research into how doctrine influenced the design of British cruiser tanks, or the drama of international governments acquiring plans for the Christie suspension would make this clear.

Producing and using a tank is a massively complicated operation that requires coordination among many branches of a war department. You have to consider doctrine, factories with spare capacity, current available labor, and raw resource production and transit. Tank plans were made at very high levels of the government and are definitely appropriate for inclusion in a grand strategy game. The chain of command is much less clear for inclusion.

This applies to ships as well.

 

[BritBaguette]

It would be cool if each part could be produced separately. what i mean is you could built a medium hull which would cost steel then build a medium turret and then have a production line that assembles these parts and the parts would be used up. this would allow for streamlined productions for example i can make one line of panzer IV hulls and have 2 lines for the turret and the sturmgeschütz gun meaning and then have production lines to assemble them. its just a thought and may not be a good one but whateves

 

[Balesir]

I wonder, if i create a tank with 0% speed but a massive amount of armor, we can essentially create maginot line divisions that can moved around via strat redeoply (unless this is being reworked with the railroad update)

Actually, one issue (that I assume there is already a fix to) is that there is a minimum speed for all units set in the Defines. This would mean that even tanks with no engine could keep up with infantry (which use the minimum speed)...

 

[Axe99]

Actually, one issue (that I assume there is already a fix to) is that there is a minimum speed for all units set in the Defines. This would mean that even tanks with no engine could keep up with infantry (which use the minimum speed)...

I imagine that, like the ship designer, some modules will be compulsory (like the engine) - but it's a good thing to think about/mention

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

How was that song...ah yes, "more mess on my thing, more mess on my thing"

 

[Captured Joe]

Actually, one issue (that I assume there is already a fix to) is that there is a minimum speed for all units set in the Defines. This would mean that even tanks with no engine could keep up with infantry (which use the minimum speed)...

I don't think you can even build vehicles without some minimum required modules like engines, since the ship designer works that way as well.

 

[baztak]

I think they should make the effects more dynamic, like sloped armour having minimal/no effect in hilly/mountainous regions (vertical armour from the right angle is as good as angled armour from straight on), radios not working in heavily wooded areas/mountains, howitzers being better in fortified areas/entrenched troops etc.
Otherwise keeping to using generic units is more likely to happen.

 

[Massinissa]

I believe one of the reasons for the Germans' reliability problem was quality of available materials. They didn't have the materials they needed so they used lesser materials which weren't as good. The game doesn't model this at all.

It was also because of complexity I believe. German designs were high performance but too complex for a total war like WW2.

If I remember correctly, Vichy France went to the extent to melt a lot of "non Vichy compliant" (like revolutionnary heroes or Haïtian revolutionnarries against Napoleon, and a lot more) statues in order to supply Germany for good quality iron and other materials. Germany really had a lack of quality resources

 

[Orlunu]

A fixed mount AA gun would only be useful for ground support, since it can't fire on aircraft (unless they kindly fly directly at the main gun in a straight line)

Observe the high-angle swivel mount on the casemate AA gun on the front of this monstrosity and marvel at the horror of Japanese AFV design.

 

[Micah Goodman 2]

The upcoming tank designer looks great. I know some people aren't interested in it but if I understand from reading the Dev Diaries you can disable or ignore it and each country has already premade designs so I'm not sure why some are complaining about it. Also, I LOVE that the tank designs can auto upgrade radio's automatically in a preexisting design if the technology level is increased. It would be fantastic if the auto upgrade philosophy was extended to certain ship components as well. Items like minelaying, minesweeping, sonar, radar, AAA, should be auto upgraded in a design if the tech level goes up WITHOUT having to make a new template if the auto upgraded option is selected.

 

[GenericType]

high performance

This is disputed actually. For example, all German 'Big Cats' thoroughly underperformed in the war given the prevailing mobility doctrine at that time. German heavy tanks were ill-suited to conduct maneuver warfare and in exploiting breakthroughs as they are not cost-effective, resulting in very low numbers, are very slow, and broke too often. The latter is because of low quality materials, rushed production, design flaws, and the low output of the German war industry at that time. The Tiger in particular has a fairly lackluster reputation, and one of the worse offenders. It's too heavy, the result of slapping inordinate amounts of armor into an already underpowered engine, which makes it too slow, the engine has an awful fuel economy and thus needed to be transported by rail, and had to have dedicated maintenance companies in every regiment that has it. Near the end of the war, it had too many variants where some parts are not interchangeable at all, causing some problems where you get the 'Hans ze transmission broke' memes.

 

[SAmaster]

Here's a question that occurred to me- how will the Bob Semple tank be represented? Likely only one point of armor, if any, and no main guns just machine-guns. But the main thing about the Bob Semple is that it was repurposed Tractor essentially. Could a 'Tractor' Chasis be in the game? I could imagine it could be similar to the pre-Dreadnought ship hull- it sucks by all accounts, can only be used by certain countries (like New Zealand) but it's cheaper.

This would also fit into the Soviet Union, who supposedly used various tractor-tanks like the rumored NI.

 

[safe-keeper]

Here's a question that occurred to me- how will the Bob Semple tank be represented? Likely only one point of armor, if any, and no main guns just machine-guns. But the main thing about the Bob Semple is that it was repurposed Tractor essentially. Could a 'Tractor' Chasis be in the game? I could imagine it could be similar to the pre-Dreadnought ship hull- it sucks by all accounts, can only be used by certain countries (like New Zealand) but it's cheaper.

This would also fit into the Soviet Union, who supposedly used various tractor-tanks like the rumored NI.

Since that sounds more like an armoured car than a tank, I guess just put an armoured car company in your division and pretend they've been emburdened with mass-produced Bob Semple tanks, the poor chaps ^^, You will have to imagine the public ridicule, though, as no mechanic exists for this in the game at present.

Or, since the Bob Semple was never mass-produced, make no changes and pretend the division has Bob Semple prototypes, with no effect on their stats because, well, Bob Semple. You'll still have to imagine the public ridicule.