HoI4 Dev Teasers (previously Podcat's Twitter Teasers)

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SanguiniusStyle

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Detente, el sagrado corazón de Jesús está conmigo.


Stop, sacred Heart of Christ is with me.

All carlist volunteers (Catholic militias with a tradition of 100 years of civil wars against liberalism) had one. They were like soldiers coming from the XIX century.



detente-2.jpg
 
Last edited:

orochi2k

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:confused: New Spain Focus Tree features:

1, Neutral/Fascist path: World conquer and form the Empire of Man.
2, Democratic path: Something something great good.
3, Communism path: Commissars everywhere.
4, Space marines
5, Heretics, lots of heretics.
6, Inquisitors that nobody expected.
.....
 

ltccone

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:confused: New Spain Focus Tree features:

1, Neutral/Fascist path: World conquer and form the Empire of Man.
2, Democratic path: Something something great good.
3, Communism path: Commissars everywhere.
4, Space marines
5, Heretics, lots of heretics.
6, Inquisitors that nobody expected.
.....
DFHg6ZsVoAAo7Av.jpg
 

SanguiniusStyle

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carlistas.jpg


My Grandfather used to tell me war stories,
how they lived and how they died...
They were in the front and they take themselves (with no officer accept:D) a permission for the weekend to go to San Fermin and how they backed to the front not alone, but with a cousin, a young brother... Etc
 

Blinho

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I hope a restored Austria-Hungary gets a decision to support Catholic elements in Spain (probably Carlists since Prince Xavier was Otto's Uncle I think)


In fact Franco offered in 1961 the Spanish Crown in first place to Otto von Habsburg, heir of Austria-Hungary. After he refused then he offered it to Juan Carlos.
 

kimidf

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I think I've seen that symbol with Isabella of Castile at some point, but can't be too sure.
But yeah, Spanish vibes are strong here, can't wait to see how the civil war rework is going to affect the SCW, hopefully with some new features still not revealed.
From the Vichy DD though, I figure Republicans and Nationalists are getting their own FT at least.

Still very much anxious for the announcement of the DLC as well, it's all gonna hinge on what the other minor is.
As I'd say that Italy has a high chance of being the other major (which should also fit for being yet another country related to civil wars), I could see it going two ways, both of which include Spain, so I can't say I'm surprised.
One is a Latin themed DLC, with Portugal being the remaining nation, and the other being with Greece and Turkey, in a Mediterranean themed DLC.
The second one seems less favorable, as it would leave Portugal and Bulgaria (the nation which would likely be packed with the Greeks and Turks) on the Belgian club of nations who lost their boat and now don't have a DLC to fit in, but can't say it's an unlikely possibility either.


I think that Belgium would fit perfectly because of its close relationship with France as well as the mechanics of the colonies that would also be related in the sense of Italy, Spain and Portugal and as you say it would not fit for another dlc that was not this. I think Greece as Turkey will keep it when they take out a dlc set in the Middle East
 

Dlin369

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Wasn't Carlism rather minor in the 1930s though?

Carlism is often cited as a major political force in the Nationalist faction of the Spanish civil war, since it appealed to peasants and Catholics (2 important constituencies). Alfonso XIII was unpopular to say the least, and leftist governments had a tendency to alienate Catholics. Consequently Carlism had an influence comparable to the Falangists before Franco and the military managed to subdue both
 

Blinho

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Wasn't Carlism rather minor in the 1930s though?

Yes it was, but Franco amalgamate many reactionary and right-wing movements (including monarchist of the Bourbon branch and the Carlist too) into a unique fascist party: FET y de las JONS: Falange Española Tradicionalista y de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista (Traditionalist Spanish Phalanx and of the Councils of the National Syndicalist Offensive) by the Unification Decree in 1937.
 

Captured Joe

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Militarily, the Carlists were much more important than the Falange; their Requetés militia was highly motivated, well-trained and disciplined. They were used as shock troops in the Nationalist northern offensives against the Basques!
 

Iskulya

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The merger wasn't really that much of a surprise. The Carlists were basically fascists themselves as the Carlists at this time drew extensively from the "integral nationalism" of Action Francaise, which as we should know was largely derived from Sorelian revisionists who devised national syndicalism and laid the path for Italian Fascism. Many historians like Ernst Nolte and Zeev Sternhell recognize Charles Maurras and AF as the originators of fascism, predating the Italian fascists by about a decade and a half.

What has confused a lot of historians and armchair analysts is that national integralists repeated a lot of tripe about being the continuation of the old feudal reaction against the French Revolution, of course even in just their rhetoric they belied the falsity behind this claim. A common Francoist slogan was that Franco's Spain was "nothing more than the Spain of Ferdinand and Isabella", which taken at face value is absurd. Spain was a society of modern, industrial capitalism(although relatively undeveloped), not of manorialism and aristocratic lords and serfs. The Carlists made many such false claims too. Any claim of being a "traditionalist" in the context of opposing the enlightenment and the French Revolution while simultaneously supporting nationalism is paradoxical. Anyone who knows even the slightest about medieval history knows medieval society was characterized by intense regionalism, and nationalism mostly did not even exist yet alone exist as a prominent force.

The Spanish fascists of Primo de Rivera were very weak and inconsequential at our start date, but CEDA had a lot of facists in it, especially in the youth wing and the supporters of Gil Robles. In the election of February, 1936; the falangists polled at about 0.5% of the popular vote. Yet by the same time next year(before the merger!) they had over a million members and were the largest party in the whole country including the Republican Zone and the likes of PSOE. This is partially explained by the crypto-fascists who had previously been within CEDA defecting to the Falange, but that party's number is too gigantic to be explained by that alone. Clearly a lot of political radicalization was happening very quickly.

The people who planned the coup really had nothing to do with fascism. The plans for the coup were set in place in the beginning of January 1936 when the falange was still an inconsequential force. The generals leading the coup had a variety of ideological dispositions, but none at the start could really be considered fascist.

I would disagree strongly with the poster that Franco and the military "subdued" the fascists. On the opposite, I would say rather that Franco co-opted them and became the head of the fascists for some obvious reasons owing to their huge power and popularity. This all happened after the deaths of Sanjurjo and Mola in [separate] plane crashes.

In an ideal world, the Nationalists would start off as non-aligned with an option to become a democratic republic with Catholicism as the state religion, a democratic constitutional monarchy with Catholicism as the state religion, a more permanent junta which could perhaps involve restoring the Bourbon monarch and having a second kind of dictatorship similar to Miguel Primo de Rivera's dictatorship in the 20's, a fascist monarchy led by the Carlists, or the kind of compromise fascist state we historically got with Franco. That's what I would do at least, but from a plausibility perspective really only the last two were real options. The Junta came to rely extensively on the Carlist Requetes and the Falangist Blueshirts as auxiliaries and it was basically politically unthinkable for the junta to break from the fascists.

I think it would be pretty cool if Alfonso was only an option for France, and could only come to power in Spain through a violent conquest by the former. As others have said, Alfonso was pretty unpopular among pretty much everyone, even people sympathetic to the monarchy.

Great to see Spain coming. At the bare minimum it looks like we're getting a Carlist option in addition to a Franco one.
 

Dlin369

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The people who planned the coup really had nothing to do with fascism. The plans for the coup were set in place in the beginning of January 1936 when the falange was still an inconsequential force. The generals leading the coup had a variety of ideological dispositions, but none at the start could really be considered fascist.

With regards to fascist movements and the military, a lot of the leaders of the Falange and the Carlists were dead by the time the merger occurred (Rivera most significantly), and many of their remaining "organic" leaders were forced to submit or be exiled/imprisoned. Manuel Hedilla of the Falange got imprisoned and then stripped of his position by Franco, and
Agustín Aznar also got imprisoned until after the war. The Carlist leadership, faced a similar fate and those that refused to submit - such as Prince Xavier - were exiled.

I'd say in terms of ideology, Nationalist Spain under Franco gradually steered away from fascism to a general conservative, authoritarian and capitalist dictatorship/later monarchy. None of the generals were particularly fascist before the war, and after the Nazis lost and fascism was no longer "cool" Franco pivoted away from any pretense of it. For the most part, I'd say fascism in Spain was mostly used to motivate the peasants into the Nationalist side, only to be discarded once the Republicans were defeated
 

FOARP

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Spain getting a focus tree! Yeah!

Hopefully it comes with an improved civil war mechanic.

It's weird how much more realistically it turns out if you just give the Republic 20,000 more units of infantry equipment.
 

SanguiniusStyle

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Carlism is often cited as a major political force in the Nationalist faction of the Spanish civil war, since it appealed to peasants and Catholics (2 important constituencies). Alfonso XIII was unpopular to say the least, and leftist governments had a tendency to alienate Catholics. Consequently Carlism had an influence comparable to the Falangists before Franco and the military managed to subdue both
Curious fact is that Cabrera, one of the most important generals during the first civil wars, recognised Alfonso XII as the legitime King during his exile in London. So some sectors would see Alfonso XIII as king 2. Such a complex dinasty...
 

xtfoster

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Yes it was, but Franco amalgamate many reactionary and right-wing movements (including monarchist of the Bourbon branch and the Carlist too) into a unique fascist party: FET y de las JONS: Falange Española Tradicionalista y de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista (Traditionalist Spanish Phalanx and of the Councils of the National Syndicalist Offensive) by the Unification Decree in 1937.
Which means, that at game start (1936) They were all still separate.
 

Axe99

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With regards to fascist movements and the military, a lot of the leaders of the Falange and the Carlists were dead by the time the merger occurred (Rivera most significantly), and many of their remaining "organic" leaders were forced to submit or be exiled/imprisoned. Manuel Hedilla of the Falange got imprisoned and then stripped of his position by Franco, and
Agustín Aznar also got imprisoned until after the war. The Carlist leadership, faced a similar fate and those that refused to submit - such as Prince Xavier - were exiled.

I'd say in terms of ideology, Nationalist Spain under Franco gradually steered away from fascism to a general conservative, authoritarian and capitalist dictatorship/later monarchy. None of the generals were particularly fascist before the war, and after the Nazis lost and fascism was no longer "cool" Franco pivoted away from any pretense of it. For the most part, I'd say fascism in Spain was mostly used to motivate the peasants into the Nationalist side, only to be discarded once the Republicans were defeated

Reading Spain during World War II gave me a similar impression, although iirc the appearance of facism was kept externally to court Germany. Rivera's widow, who remained an ardent Falangist, had some influence, but Franco was far more conservative than fascist, and balanced the Falangist elements of the Government off against others throughout the period, adjusting the stance to suit both his ends and the international situation. Iirc, the Carlists were more important than the Falangists at the start, but Franco, plus some questionable decisions on the part of the Carlists and the monarch they supported, lead to their influence dropping a heap, but my memory is pretty ropey today, so that could be off.