HoI4 Dev Teasers (previously Podcat's Twitter Teasers)

[Vohen]

It just seems like if the limiting resource here is time, wouldn't that time be better spend improving the historical parts of various trees before going into Communist USA-type stuff?

Truth is, they need to sell their DLC on something.
Fuel will be free, the naval rework will be free, the historical part of their reworked FT will be free, so what's left to be the selling point is the new FTs and the alt-hist reworked FTs.
If you ask me, I'd rather they do that than putting any of those free features behind a paywall (like they did with many EU4's DLCs, sadly).
And I say that as someone who's probably going to buy MtG on day one, but it just seems like a much better practice, from the customer side as well as the development side.

 

[Zwirbaum]

It seems unclear who actually works on what when it comes to content; as far as I know there's no way to tell if focus tree time and mechanics time is zero sum. Either way I'll reserve the majority of my salt for the customers. If no one cared about government flip focus trees they'd probably stop making them.

Usually content designers do the focus trees, decisions, maps, events and as such. Game designers deal with balance and game mechanics. But of course it is not like content designers don't have a word on the balance/mechanics and vice versa. For example focus tree idea/concept can for example spark idea/need for game mechanic and so on. Think of it as combined arms approach.

 

[Sighfer]

I'm still trying to figure out what that icon is supposed to reference. Bonus Army?

Also, yes, without the New Deal, USA would very quickly start going communist. And with the New Deal, the business's response was to plot to overthrow FDR and establish a fascist dictatorship. A Business Plot, if you will. Don't forget the recession of 1937, either.

 

[Karbinder]

I was afraid of this. I really don't like having a communist tree for the US.

I think Labor Unions will get to play a real interesting and unique role...

unless people forgot that they were practically the only powerful force that could carry communism upwards in the U.S.

I'm still trying to figure out what that icon is supposed to reference. Bonus Army?

Also, yes, without the New Deal, USA would very quickly start going communist. And with the New Deal, the business's response was to plot to overthrow FDR and establish a fascist dictatorship. A Business Plot, if you will. Don't forget the recession of 1937, either.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Business Plot before the game's timeline?

 

[Sighfer]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Business Plot before the game's timeline?

Yeah. That doesn't mean they can't try again. As FDR said, "Everybody is against me, except the voter."

 

[GSP Jr]

So the metric for including something or not is simply whether you have time or not, not whether it was remotely plausible historically? I'm just trying to get a sense of how things are prioritized.

Rule #1 - Make money. That means sell shit.
I believe that about covers it, it is a business after all.

 

[hkrommel]

Also, yes, without the New Deal, USA would very quickly start going communist.

Citation needed.

And with the New Deal, the business's response was to plot to overthrow FDR and establish a fascist dictatorship. A Business Plot, if you will.

The "Business Plot" to the extent you're describing it has never been substantiated. Ever. Nobody was prosecuted, one person was questioned, and it all amounted to nothing. Here's a contemporary New York Times article regarding the alleged incident. From the wikipedia article (citing the committee report) "Those implicated in the plot by Butler all denied any involvement. MacGuire was the only figure identified by Butler who testified before the committee. Others Butler accused were not called to appear to testify because the "committee has had no evidence before it that would in the slightest degree warrant calling before it such men ... The committee will not take cognizance of names brought into testimony which constitute mere hearsay."

Finally, "While historians have questioned whether or not a coup was actually close to execution, most agree that some sort of "wild scheme" was contemplated by a Wall Street bond salesman who discussed it with Butler." Butler was a leftist by the way.

So we only have evidence of two people, one bond salesman and one businessman, who, in a drunken state, discussed a potential coup.

Don't forget the recession of 1937, either.

During which there was no evidence of any extremism taking hold.

Presidential Election 1932:
Democratic Party: 57.41%
Republican Party: 39.65%
Socialist Party: 2.23%
Communist Party: 0.26%
Prohibition Party (one-issue party seeking reinstatement of prohibition): 0.21%
Liberty Party (one-issue party seeking a silver/gold standard for currency): 0.13%
Socialist-Labor Party: 0.09%
Farmer-Labor Party (single-issue farmer price and wage fixing party): 0.02%

Total: 2.58% combining all Socialist or Communist parties. No Fascists. Only 100,000 Communist votes out of 39,800,000 voters.

Presidential Election 1936:
Democratic Party: 60.8%
Republican Party: 36.54%
Union Party (only thing close to Fascism, more wanting a populist New Deal than anything else): 1.95%
Socialist Party: 0.41%
Communist Party: 0.17%
Prohibition Party: 0.08%
Socialist-Labor Party: 0.03%

Total: Even taking the Union Party to be "Fascist" that's 1.95% for them, 0.61% for leftists, total 2.56% for all non-centrists.

Presidential Election 1940:
Democratic Party: 54.74%
Republican Party: 44.78%
Socialist Party: 0.23%
Prohibition Party: 0.12%
Communist Party: 0.10%
Socialist-Labor Party: 0.03%

Total: "Fascists" don't even register again. 0.36% for leftists.

See a trend here? If Paradox wants to create wild and unrealistic scenarios, that's their business, but don't pretend any of this was actually plausible.

 

[puppet on a string]

'time' invested in the japanese communist branch would have been much better spent on a - much more plausible - german communist branch

 

[hkrommel]

Truth is, they need to sell their DLC on something.
Fuel will be free, the naval rework will be free, the historical part of their reworked FT will be free, so what's left to be the selling point is the new FTs and the alt-hist reworked FTs.
If you ask me, I'd rather they do that than putting any of those free features behind a paywall (like they did with many EU4's DLCs, sadly).

I think that's a fair assessment. However, it feels like Paradox is leaving me and others with similar interests behind with this strategy. Those who know me on this forum know I'm no fan of railroading or historical certainty, but I bought HOI4 to be a plausible GSG in the WW2 timeframe, something that it has not accomplished. It's disturbing to me when, instead of focusing on the issues with the historical part of the game, Paradox is blatantly prioritizing alternate history (just watch the trailer for MtG). I get that this may be a more profitable strategy (though we'll see once people who want a historical experience start jumping ship), but it's concerning.

 

[Reinner]

'time' invested in the japanese communist branch would have been much better spent on a - much more plausible - german communist branch

Honestly aside from Shogunate/Kodoha path, democratic and communist paths are boring and lack content especially when you compare them to Kaiser/democratic paths that Germany received.

 

[Robosoldier1]

Remember when people made fun of/disagreed with me when I said that alternative history was stuff was going too far? Well I think the indicator by communist America just adds fuel to the fire.

Seriously dedicating time and resources to make up such crock scenarios is just such a waste of time and potential of this game. You guys are more satisfied with this short term burst of a meme then the long term intricate systems relating to politics, economics, leadership involvement, key events (more of them), technology development and so on. this community is craving more, not just in the actual content but the actual weight the content brings to the table. Fuel is something that is a needed plus, Navy rework a needed plus, this fantasy political direction and decision based country path? No most certainly not.

 

[Karbinder]

Yeah. That doesn't mean they can't try again. As FDR said, "Everybody is against me, except the voter."

Heh, I suppose. I just thought that, with the Silver Legion of America and the German-American Bund, both of their shenanigans would be pretty intersting proponents rather than going back and giving the business plot a second go; however, both are viable and unique options, I'll give you that.

 

[hkrommel]

Heh, I suppose. I just thought that, with the Silver Legion of America and the German-American Bund, both of their shenanigans would be pretty intersting proponents rather than going back and giving the business plot a second go; however, both are viable and unique options, I'll give you that.

Neither are viable, in any sense of the word.

 

[Karbinder]

Neither are viable, in any sense of the word.

Viable as in viable to a game's plot via focus tree. Of course it wouldn't be viable in real life. Half the options within the game aren't either.

 

[GSP Jr]

I think that's a fair assessment. However, it feels like Paradox is leaving me and others with similar interests behind with this strategy. Those who know me on this forum know I'm no fan of railroading or historical certainty, but I bought HOI4 to be a plausible GSG in the WW2 timeframe, something that it has not accomplished. It's disturbing to me when, instead of focusing on the issues with the historical part of the game, Paradox is blatantly prioritizing alternate history (just watch the trailer for MtG). I get that this may be a more profitable strategy (though we'll see once people who want a historical experience start jumping ship), but it's concerning.

I agree with you completely.
The only alt-history question to me is 'what would I have done if I was in charge' and how would that have worked out....

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

I think that's a fair assessment. However, it feels like Paradox is leaving me and others with similar interests behind with this strategy. Those who know me on this forum know I'm no fan of railroading or historical certainty, but I bought HOI4 to be a plausible GSG in the WW2 timeframe, something that it has not accomplished. It's disturbing to me when, instead of focusing on the issues with the historical part of the game, Paradox is blatantly prioritizing alternate history (just watch the trailer for MtG). I get that this may be a more profitable strategy (though we'll see once people who want a historical experience start jumping ship), but it's concerning.

Why does it have to be viewed as pursuit of alt-history is an abandonment of historical? I prefer to see it as the alt-history funding historical foundations. Foundations that the modders can expand upon.

 

[hkrommel]

Why does it have to be viewed as pursuit of alt-history is an abandonment of historical? I prefer to see it as the alt-history funding historical foundations. Foundations that the modders can expand upon.

Opportunity costs. Since we've already established that the limiting factor is time, then time spent developing alt-history is time not spent fixing, developing, and refining the historical side of the game, which is lacking.

 

[pvt.conners]

Personally, I'm excited to see what overhaul was done to the historical aspects of the US/UK focus tree, as both the German and Japanese focus trees got decent historical improvements.

 

[GSP Jr]

Why does it have to be viewed as pursuit of alt-history is an abandonment of historical? I prefer to see it as the alt-history funding historical foundations. Foundations that the modders can expand upon.

I would like PDX to do the historical part better, less buggy, and leave the 'Bhutan World Conquest" type stuff to the modding community, not the other way around.

 

[Xerberous]

On the one hand I find it extremely interesting from a psychological standpoint how personally insulted some people are when PDX proposes some non-democratic path for the US. On the other hand I have to commit that they are right as longs as it refers to communism – this is really implausible. When it comes to fascism I can tell you as a historically well-educated German that the path from conservatism to fascism to much, much shorter that you think. Perhaps not Nazi-style fascism, but some form of government which matches most of the points defined for example here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism.

Regarding the teaser I would propose to wait and see. I would guess that the symbol is part of the british tree and they will get some “DoW on the US focus” in case they chose the commi tree.