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keyframer

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Turkish Motorized Icon should be changed imo aswell the Mechanized ones since they even used Praga T7 Models

48110674461_3675da0b9b.jpg1938 isildak.jpg

 
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Interesting. Now that Kurdistan has its own cores in Southeast Anatolia, and Greece is getting cores/claims on Constantinople, would also make a lot of sense to allow Armenia to spawn in Northeast Anatolia or to claim cores there if liberated by the USSR
 
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keyframer

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Mr.Grizzly

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Interesting. Now that Kurdistan has its own cores in Southeast Anatolia, and Greece is getting cores/claims on Constantinople, would also make a lot of sense to allow Armenia to spawn in Northeast Anatolia or to claim cores there if liberated by the USSR
As much as I would love seeing a free and large Armenia, the USSR had main Armenia, which is represented already, and what's called Lesser Armenia, the part that Turkey has, at the game start the Armenian population "disappeared" so a core wouldn't make sense to me, similar to how Greece doesn't get a core on Istanbul. If Armenia got a focus tree then yes they should get a way to core it but that's not happening anytime soon. Though some sort of representation of the Armenians in Turkey would be nice.
 
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how Greece doesn't get a core on Istanbul.
I have no disagreement with your broader analysis in this post, but I do think it's worth noting that Greece *used* to have a core on Istanbul and it was changed to a claim for gameplay reasons (the AI was too irredentist about it IIRC)
 

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I have no disagreement with your broader analysis in this post, but I do think it's worth noting that Greece *used* to have a core on Istanbul and it was changed to a claim for gameplay reasons (the AI was too irredentist about it IIRC)
Yes and I disagreed with that core being there and considering it's gone now, well once the update and DLC drop next month, that's why I listed it as an example. From my understanding it's removed because most Greeks were expelled from Turkey and with the peace treaty to the 2nd Greco-Turkish War and other interwar treaties, they had no "core" to it, however a historical claim yes. I never once saw Greece justifying over the core, and in fact I see AIs justify using claims much more frequently then using cores, I don't know if that's just how my games go or the standard, but it's weird.
 

keyframer

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however a historical claim yes
What kind historical claim they can here truly have? Since 1453 it get ruled and even changed very much + got an Asian Part and this all happened not under the rule of the Eastern Roman Empire which consisted more then just greek minorities.

Besides that the Greece that we know was founded 1821 with huge support from the Major Powers back that time and even actions against it got again interrupted by them aswell - like a buffer against the Ottomans.

The Straits was also a Issue which the Western Powers like France or Great Britain (even USA) never would let Fall to stopping Russia getting more power. Also since 1453 Russia is being seeing as the heir of orthodoxianity or even tries imply that.

Giving the Straits Greece just for some reason while they can change anytime their side to Russians because of that orthodoxianity thing and backstab even the Western Powers - i don´t think that will happen.

The City got re-named to Istanbul and changed already much since 1453:


It´s not like that some 50-100 Years of Timeline - we are talking here about nearly ~ 500 Years and even before since the Fourth Crusade and even the conquest of 1453 many citizens already left that City.

If Greece would became here a core for some reason like for the revival of Macedonian Empire it would make sense but we are in-game the 20th Century and i don´t think that anyone would accept claims like "thousands years ago there was a...." !
 
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The Greeks were claiming Constantinople/Istanbul for a long time, you can't deny the claim. The core is gone as it should. But in 1910, the Greeks made up almost 39% of the population, then Balkan Wars, WWI and 2nd Greco-Turkish War happened and ended with the population exchanges. I'm trying not to get political here or talk about certain events, but after Greece became free and the wars they fought in from their creation in 1824, clearly had a goal of kicking out the Ottomans/Turkish from at least the Balkans, a claim on Istabul makes sense.
 

keyframer

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a claim on Istanbul makes sense.
When on the same time during World War 1 the Triple Entente and during interwar-period Bulgaria and Russia/Soviet Union had a claim on it? Also 39% that you call "Greeks" are differy very themselve then the ones on the greek peninsula.

Btw where did you got that Source of 39%?
 
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When on the same time during World War 1 the Triple Entente and during interwar-period Bulgaria and Russia/Soviet Union had a claim on it?
Soviet Union announced their claims Bosphorus ever since Molotov pact was signed. Even before that Stalin wanted to have control over the straits, but WW2 kinda got in the way and they even reopened the case after war which is what led to Straight crisis which began in 1946.

Dude realism doesn't exist in this game, Trotsky can lead Mexico and Italy can core entire Mediterranean if they restore Roman Empire.
Greece should have claims on Istanbul / Constantinople, same for Bulgaria except they should rename it to Tsarigrad if they get their hands on it.
 

Mr.Grizzly

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When on the same time during World War 1 the Triple Entente and during interwar-period Bulgaria and Russia/Soviet Union had a claim on it? Also 39% that you call "Greeks" are differy very themselve then the ones on the greek peninsula.

Btw where did you got that Source of 39%?
Triple Entente didn't really claim it, Russia sure, but just specify them. Bulgaria yes claimed it, not enough for a full claim but one in the focus tree makes sense, and Soviet Union "claimed" it for strategic reasons for their Black Sea fleet and shipping. Yes the Greeks in Thrace would be different from Greeks in the Morea Peninsula for example, that's how countries are, not all Germans are the same, you have Bavarians, Saxons, Swabians and more, for the British you have English, Scottish, Cornish and Welsh.

Ottoman demographic numbers of East Thrace from 1910 show the following:

Turks: ~744,000 (46.11%)
Greeks: ~625,000 (38.76%)
Bulgarians: ~71,000 (4.40%)
Others: ~173,000 (10.73%)

You have to remember that Istanbul wasn't the only place in East Thrace, many Greeks lived in the surrounding area as well, Istanbul itself was the following:

Turks: ~450,000 (53.19%)
Greeks: ~260,000 (30.73%)
Bulgarians: ~6,000 (0.70%)
Others: ~130,000 (15.38%)

So yeah, Greek claims to East Thrace were pretty high, next you're going to tell me Greece doesn't deserve a claim to Cyprus, aren't you?
 

keyframer

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You have to remember that Istanbul wasn't the only place in East Thrace, many Greeks lived in the surrounding area as well
Like Turks everywhere of the former past Ottoman Empire.

next you're going to tell me Greece doesn't deserve a claim to Cyprus, aren't you?
No I´m still asking you to provide us a Source for these numbers that you are presenting us.
 
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I wonder when (or even at all) will Poland be reworked. Their national focus tree looks so pathetic comparing to other, even smaller nations.
 

Gilaras

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Interesting. Now that Kurdistan has its own cores in Southeast Anatolia, and Greece is getting cores/claims on Constantinople, would also make a lot of sense to allow Armenia to spawn in Northeast Anatolia or to claim cores there if liberated by the USSR
Because of this agreement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey#:~:text=The 1923 population exchange between,the governments of Greece and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek...rkey was the,of Independence 19 years earlier.
 
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FeliciaDarkvoir

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Thanks for the dev diaries, very helpful and delivered with a nice bit of wit and humanity.

@Buzz! I have been looking forward to focus trees for Greece and Turkey immensley since I got the game, and this is in no small part, because my friends and I love to engage in naval warfare wherein every ship counts. As such, I was hoping it would not be too probing a question to ask if we could see the potential Naval designers at the disposal of these two strategically positioned naval nations.

In neither dev diary did we delve particularly into Navy, which I understand as these aspects of the game are hardly front and center of peoples midns when Byzantium is on the mind, but these two nations are two of the only ones who could have become regional powers accepting the Naval burden and so I am really hoping for more details if you could :)

(Also somewhat hoping for range buffs to aircraft for these nations for whom building an aircraft carrier is not an intuitively feasible feat. due to excessive research costs... Naval presence under red air remains a death sentence in this game XD)
 
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Yasinberk61

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can anyone tell me what the reference is with that flag at the end haha
The last flag means turan you can say united turkish nations to it it contains all turkish countries as one country it includes tajikistan oozbekistan kazakistan etc. As you can see most of there country are part of the soviet union at hoi4 probably turan part of turkey focus tree is about fight soviet union and take these countries or it is like anschluss i dont know but id like to unite turan it is very nice (im turkish so sorry for bad english)
 

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The last flag means turan you can say united turkish nations to it it contains all turkish countries as one country it includes tajikistan oozbekistan kazakistan etc. As you can see most of there country are part of the soviet union at hoi4 probably turan part of turkey focus tree is about fight soviet union and take these countries or it is like anschluss i dont know but id like to unite turan it is very nice (im turkish so sorry for bad english)
Your English is fine. Much better than my Turkish. :)

I am looking forward to playing this new tree, I am currently playing Turkey with the goal of uniting all the targets of Stalin's Southern Thrust. Finally did it on the second try (the first time all those dummies joined Japan and were swallowed up by the Raj). Took FOREVER for the the Axis to fall and Japan is not only still fighting but regained Korea and Manchuchko (the new timid-Navy AI is getting tiresome). Lost a lot of manpower from volunteers but I have a butt-load of equipment - Turkey must build heavy and modern armour, no excuses! :mad:

Here my faction is standing proudly against the Godless Infidel! (Sorry Afghanistan :()

 

zonkie

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this is amazing. glad youre working on hoi4