Hoi4 Dev Diary - Thoughts & roadmap

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kimidf

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I also think there would be a new intermediate level between the army and the groups of armies, which would be the army corps.

It would also be necessary to implement a significant reduction in the number of divisions that a general could carry. The most likely thing is that the maximum number of divisions that a general could have would have to be between 12 or 15 divisions and not 24 divisions as it is currently
 

Kosaki MacTavish

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What ... exactly were you expecting?
Well, i concur everyone here expects the development for the next major patch to be underway right now, but they need the DD updates to confirm their expectation.

For myself, i can wait until mid-April for its first DD, so i'm still content with the current situation right now.
 
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Askorti

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Well, i concur everyone here expects the development for the next major patch to be underway right now, but they need the DD updates to confirm their expectation.

For myself, i can wait until mid-April for its first DD, so i'm still content with the current situation right now.
That's kinda silly. I doubt there is any point in time when a major patch is *not* in some form of development. Be it conceptual stage, pre-production or later.
So the players' expectation is completely off the mark, because the question of "when will you start working on the next major patch" shouldn't come up at all. Because they at all times are working on one, we just don't know yet what it is.
 
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kimidf

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That's kinda silly. I doubt there is any point in time when a major patch is *not* in some form of development. Be it conceptual stage, pre-production or later.
So the players' expectation is completely off the mark, because the question of "when will you start working on the next major patch" shouldn't come up at all. Because they at all times are working on one, we just don't know yet what it is.
or possibly they are in two patches in parallel one larger and one smaller like they did last time
 
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MrMcQue

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That's kinda silly. I doubt there is any point in time when a major patch is *not* in some form of development. Be it conceptual stage, pre-production or later.
So the players' expectation is completely off the mark, because the question of "when will you start working on the next major patch" shouldn't come up at all. Because they at all times are working on one, we just don't know yet what it is.
I agree, and i am pretty sure some dev spoke already that they are currently working on [redacted].

But coming to @Kosaki MacTavish 's point, i also am content waiting to at least april or even may. But after may, coming into june, at least some sort of update about what they are working on, if not an outright dev diary would be nice.
 
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styroler

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Airforce Command must be implemented. Current mechanic is old and obsolete.

We need Air Force commanders, traits, bonuses and better control of aviation in general.

Navy has been improved, aviation needs to be as well
I agree, but commanders need to be rebalanced. Navy commanders almost never level up and gain traits, while Generals end the game with every single possible trait. Not to mention spies who just dont level up at all even when on continuous missions the entire game (if you play millennium dawn where the games go literally 20 years you will end up seeing a few spies maybe gaining a level and a trait). Im worried with airforce commanders we will end up seeing the opposite problems though because Airforce Experience grinding is also by far the easiest of the three and without rebalancing the airforce Generals would end up with by far the most experience of all. I wonder how commanders would be implemented though because having 1 commander per squadron would be an unmanageable amount of commanders but air force usage is hyper specific to situation so air force armies would make no sense.
 

Broe

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Great Power Diplomacy
This is one area that I feel doesn’t need much explanation. More diplomatic tools are a clear area for expansion, and a careful look at how this module can be developed without interfering with the overarching global war, is likely to happen.
I love to see more Diplomacy but I can not see how this going to work with the present focus tree that overrule just about anything else atm.
 
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Strata101

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I love the new road map for the game.
Seeing the Man the guns DLC a navy overhaul, The No step back DLC an Army overhaul, I am expecting an air force overhaul.
In the current state, the airforce is very simple (in both understanding and using) it lacks depth.
There are no ways to upgrade air advisors or gain them and there are no air leaders. (Adding an air marshal could be good to add a bit of uniqueness)
Additionally, some aspects of the aeroplane mechanics could be made a little different to account for all the plane types.
Currently, tactical bombers and carrier CAS are redundant
carriers CAS is never needed (except in the early game because of better targetting), tactical bombers are completely redundant because dedicated CAS, Naval bombers and Strat bombers are better. Even with the tactical bomber doctrine
 
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Emren

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I love the new road map for the game.
Seeing the Man the guns DLC a navy overhaul, The No step back DLC an Army overhaul, I am expecting an air force overhaul.
In the current state, the airforce is very simple (in both understanding and using) it lacks depth.
There are no ways to upgrade air advisors or gain them and there are no air leaders. (Adding an air marshal could be good to add a bit of uniqueness)
Additionally, some aspects of the aeroplane mechanics could be made a little different to account for all the plane types.
Currently, tactical bombers and carrier CAS are redundant
carriers CAS is never needed (except in the early game because of better targetting), tactical bombers are completely redundant because dedicated CAS, Naval bombers and Strat bombers are better. Even with the tactical bomber doctrine
There are plenty of threads about Tactical Bombers, where you can read about their uses. TACs are great for countries that need to worry about their economy and will therefore appreciate the flexibility and good LOG bombing, and that need to fight over large air zones. If you only play Germany, then yeah, you don’t strictly need TACs.
 

xtfoster

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You guys should make a Ukranian focus tree...
Before they create trees for countries that didn't exist during (or even near to) the timeframe of the game, they need to create trees for all the countries that did.
 
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TrotBot

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View attachment 804450

Greetings all!

As you’ll no doubt be aware, the launch of the No Step Back expansion last year was the climax of a busy year of development for the HoI team, and it continues to be one of our best received releases to date.

Of course, the last year also saw the departure of @podcat as Game Director who was reassigned to Siberia greater things at Paradox. Many of you will also have read the roadmap document that was produced towards the beginning of HoI4 development, and are asking questions as to the veracity of that plan under a new director, and whether I have any different ideas or plans to announce.

Looking Forwards

I mentioned at the beginning of my tenure that both @podcat and I see HoI4 in broadly similar terms. This hasn’t changed, and you can expect to see many of the parts of the previous roadmap make an appearance at some point in the future.

My approach to a ‘Grand Plan’, however, may be somewhat different. I have a preference for leaving plenty of space for reactive development (something that served us well on Imperator), and while there are many things that I feel are ripe for future development, I am also keen to leave a lot of space for changing course and acting on community sentiment.

There are two main points I want to raise before we get to details, however. Firstly, we intend to up the tempo of our releases a little. This is, of course, an ambition, and not a promise, however it informs some further decisions related to the development of HoI. Namely, that we are considering ways to change how and when we release information on development to you folks. Since faster development is the goal, this also means getting ideas into public view slightly faster, for feedback and conversation. We’re not exactly sure how this will look yet, but it is likely that there’ll be a reorganization of the traditional dev-diary schedule into something that feels less like a milestone delivery. This comes in tandem with a need to shift the community’s expectations on what ‘in development’ means: getting fans accustomed to seeing placeholders, WIP balance, and half-built systems in early phases, and seeing things develop as time goes on.

The last major point here is that we recognize a need to maintain the game as well as to develop it, especially if development pace is picking up. We’re still considering how best to achieve this, and I’m watching initiatives such as the Custodian team on Stellaris with curiosity. For the time being, what this is likely to manifest as, is the inclusion of older system maintenance into our patch planning - you may start to see patch bulletin features including things such as minor focus tree revamps, as well as attention paid to older systems and expansion content.

Roadmap

As mentioned above, the 2020 roadmap for HoI4 included many things which have now either been completed or rendered unnecessary. This leaves several from podcat’s list which I believe are still important for the future of the game:

  • Improvements to frontline stability (progress in NSB, more to come)
  • Long term goals and strategies to guide ai (progress in NSB)
  • Improving peace conferences
  • Update core national focus trees with alt-history paths and more options (Italy)
  • Wunderwaffen projects
  • More differences between sub-ideologies and government forms
  • More National Focus trees
  • Make defensive warfare more fun
  • Adding mechanics to limit the size of your standing army, particularly post-war etc
  • Have doctrines more strongly affect division designing
  • Strategic and tactical AI improvements

In addition to these items, I will of course add some of my own personal intentions:

Great Power Diplomacy
This is one area that I feel doesn’t need much explanation. More diplomatic tools are a clear area for expansion, and a careful look at how this module can be developed without interfering with the overarching global war, is likely to happen.

Economic Decision Making
The economic system is very abstracted in HoI, and I do not foresee ever making it a major part of the game loop. This said, there are elements of an industrial economy that I feel could do with being part of decision making in HoI.

Immersive/Roleplay Elements
Optional tools for making your mark on a game, and/or development of further building blocks to enhance attachment to a HoI campaign. Bring the simulation to life.

And of course, many more that I feel do not need as much of an explanation:

  • Battleplanner improvements
  • Advisors/internal politics improvements
  • Ideological distinctions
  • Multiplayer & social layer improvements & support

I like to remain as open as possible to the needs of the community, and the inclusion or omission of any particular item above should not be considered ‘set in stone’.

As we look at how we plan on structuring future communications, there may be some space for a few more dev diaries on what you’ve all been getting up to in NSB in the near(ish) future!

/Arheo
Would it be possible to get rid of division width entirely? I don't believe it adds anything but confusion to the game.
 

Balesir

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Would it be possible to get rid of division width entirely? I don't believe it adds anything but confusion to the game.
It adds a limitation on how much force can actually fight in an individual province. Without some such mechanism, the optimum tactic would be to concentrate your entire force in one province - which would be neither fun nor realistic.

The mechanism as currently constituted certainly has multiple flaws. A division's frontage is generally not the sum of the frontage of its subunits, for example (because each level of the pyramid of command - from platoon up - tries to keep a local reserve). The frontage of larger units is generally roughly proportional to the square root of their size (because they gain depth at the same proportional rate - roughly - to that at which they gain width). But this flows over to larger groupings such as corps and armies, too, so just adjusting the width of divisions would not be sufficient.

There is also a degree to which frontage can be "stretched out" if facing a larger force, but there are diminishing returns and increased weaknesses offsetting this - and often it's better to keep concentrated and deny the enemy passage through taking a good position. This relies on terrain, though.

There is also the effect that unit depth has on firepower. Reserves cannot use their firepower, so that the attack factors of a unit should also really be proportional to the square root of the unit size (adjusted by weaponry and so on). This tends to enhance the value of advanced, expensive and/or heavy weaponry, as well as giving limited, transitory advantages to smaller units (enabling strategies such as raiding and harrassing, for example).

Finally, frontage is not fixed with respect to technology and doctrine. Different approaches to battle tend to both allow and demand different unit frontage. For a stark illustration think of a line of Napoleonic musketmen as opposed to a modern infantry defence; the latter is far more spread out both because this gives far better protection against modern weapons and because the power of their own weapons allows much more extensive control of ground. To what extent the infantry try to take advantage of both of these aspects is set by doctrine, so that this, too, modifies the (default) unit frontage.
 
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The frontage of larger units is generally roughly proportional to the square root of their size
Thank you for your reply but I honestly still don't get it and this part convinced me even more firmly that division width only adds confusion.

I get the concept of why a limit is needed. I think they should lock it in. Just standardize division width for all and remove player control from this entirely. I'm not here to do math, please, my eyes swivel to the back of my head just thinking about division widths.
 
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mineralko

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I really wish battleplanner and unit AI would be improved. It's the meat of the game - what good are peace conferences and air designer if majority of HOI feels like an annoying AI babysitting session while the game does it's best to demand my attention all over the place. It actually feels like work, the only difference being I get paid for work.
 

Balesir

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I get the concept of why a limit is needed. I think they should lock it in. Just standardize division width for all and remove player control from this entirely. I'm not here to do math, please, my eyes swivel to the back of my head just thinking about division widths.
That would give brigades (or even batallions) the same frontage as a division - and not every theatre worked with divisions. You need differences - and using the total subunit width factor make perfect sense, honestly (even if using it a little differently would be useful). You don't (and shouldn't) need to do the maths yourself; the computer does that for you. You just need to react to the factors it tells you about.

I really wish battleplanner and unit AI would be improved. It's the meat of the game - what good are peace conferences and air designer if majority of HOI feels like an annoying AI babysitting session while the game does it's best to demand my attention all over the place. It actually feels like work, the only difference being I get paid for work.
I honestly think that the best remedy for this is to let go of control freakery and accept that shit happens in war. Stuff goes wrong. It really isn't humanly possible to run any sort of military (or even non-military!) operation in the real world without stuff going belly-up. Just accept that and roll with it. Enjoy the sensation of dealing with life's tribulations. Sometimes units don't do as the commander, with his or her birds-eye view, would like them to. The bird's eye view may see the bigger picture, but it also doesn't see the detail on the ground that might be making all the difference.
 
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TrotBot

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That would give brigades (or even batallions) the same frontage as a division - and not every theatre worked with divisions.
Then give me a few limited options with clear advantages and disadvantages. Give me a low, medium, high width setting and hide the number from me. I don't need single digit finetuning. I need understandable strategy. I don't need to be guessing what my optimal width is and whether I need to add 1 more or 1 less to the number to hit the watershed where it jumps and becomes radically different.

Quick question. What is the optimal width. Perhaps that is too vague, and already that's part of my issue. But let's put that aside and be more specific, what is the optimal width for soviet troops. And one more caveat, I need trotsky to win the civil war, defeat germany and eventually conquer america (and the world) under the democratic control of the supreme congress of soviets.

If you can explain to me what my division width should be, preferably set it and forget it to win all of those tasks, great. Otherwise, give me an answer for civil war, german front, american front.

My issue is, I doubt you can give me a simple answer or anyone can. It's far too much "trial and error" introduced into the equation.
 
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