HoI4 Dev Diary - The Imperial Japanese Navy (AAR)

HoI4 Dev Diary - The Imperial Japanese Navy (AAR)

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Qualitypunk1

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This is looking more amazing with every reveal.

Note to the "release date when" crowd; you're getting more news than those of us who play Star Wars Armada. Been about a year since expansion info was announced and nothing but a leak or "leak" since. I'm looking forward to overthinking ship/fleet designs in HOI4 like I do in Armada.
 

Crowarior

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"filthy American imperialists" - Plays as EMPIRE of japan lol
 

Novacat

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That was a complete defeat, comparable to Midway. Also, as Japan, 100% of all of my naval xp before war with the Allies gets saved and then used for the Shokaku class carriers in 1940. I understand things are different now that you have to use naval xp now to design all of your ships. I don't know, I think this puts you in an even more precarious situation, but to win the war means to win at sea, and that means carrier power. Nothing else even comes close to it. I would have started designing those cruisers and destroyers with the war xp, not the xp leading up to it. You also used to get chunks of xp from focuses. I am not sure how much that has changed with WtT though.
As someone who played Japan relatively recently, the new Japanese focus tree grants you no naval experience (and only 10 army experience), you will basically be entirely dependent on training and the early war with China for your exp.

One of the things about the new version is that the new naval designer is not like the old variant system, where dumping naval exp into it just made it flat out better. It is going to work more similar to the army designer, so, designing the 'perfect' Shokaku will probably be a lot cheaper, but on the flip side, you will be required to spend some naval exp on anything you planned on fielding.

I suspect one of the major decisions facing a Japan player will be wither to stick by the Washington Naval Treaty, or abandon it. You can probably game the system by spending exactly the maximum cap on ships, and then when the war starts and the limits are removed, refit to a much stronger ship.

Of course, one of my old longstanding questions is:
Is the Carrier penalty still in the game?

If so, than old CV1s become a liability and thus it might actually be useful to convert them back to battleships/cruisers.

Will you be able to license nation specific technologies, like the panzershiff or cruiser submarine
More than likely you can, you just will not be able to design them yourself.
 

Kacper1234PL

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"filthy American imperialists" - Plays as EMPIRE of japan lol
No no no, when we do it, it's liberating people of in this case Asia, but when they do it they are warmongering imperialist scum. :)

also I'm pretty sure that having emperor or king doesn't make you automatically imperialistic. (e.g. modern Japan, they aren't imperialistic, are they?) it only makes you imperialist when you want to conquer random nations just because you're bored.
 

R. James Gauvreau

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It's really disappointing to see how many people have only been asking about the release date, or whining about the nature of the dev diary. I found this update to be helpful, personally, and it was definitely nicer than having no update at all.
 

Farquarsen

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Looking at the one naval battle you showed us. it looks like the following:

1. Planes are used after DDs find the enemy.
2. DDs and CLs are scouting. You call it screening but its really scouting.
3. Battleships delivered the killing blow on the carriers.

I want to be able to do the following:

1. Build naval carrier and land based planes scout, find, and kill the enemy. Planes should be able to sink carriers without surface fleet assistance.
2. I want to build a modern navy in the game without battleships and be successful. I should be able to do this.Battleships became obsolete for naval combat during WWII. They were not that effective in the battle of Leyte. Had Taffy 3 been under the command of a naval air admiral and not MacArthur, some of the aircraft would have been armed for ship combat and some armed to support the landings. Taffy 3 would have been even more successful against the IJN battleships and cruisers. That is why in modern navies, there aren't any battleships.
3. Build Cruisers, Light cruisers and destroyers that screen carriers and/or protect SLOCs.
3a. CLs and DDs protect SLOCs.
3b. CAs, CLs and DDs screen carriers in the rear not the front of the battle.

If your DLC does these three things above, then you have succeeded in building an excellent, comprehensive, grand strategy WWII game and will have made my day. I am hoping that what I saw in the AAR is a McArthur trying to be an Admiral and what I want to see is Nimitz planning and leading the Naval battle. I am hoping that a good respectable Admiral playing the game can mimic Nimitz and that the mechanics of the game, that we cannot mod, allow it.
 

redsox3030

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It only took a full year to implement what unpaid modders have already done and what was alreasy in the previous game. YAY WE LOVE YOU PDX ONLY $19.99
 

Daelyn75

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As someone who played Japan relatively recently, the new Japanese focus tree grants you no naval experience (and only 10 army experience), you will basically be entirely dependent on training and the early war with China for your exp.

One of the things about the new version is that the new naval designer is not like the old variant system, where dumping naval exp into it just made it flat out better. It is going to work more similar to the army designer, so, designing the 'perfect' Shokaku will probably be a lot cheaper, but on the flip side, you will be required to spend some naval exp on anything you planned on fielding.

I suspect one of the major decisions facing a Japan player will be wither to stick by the Washington Naval Treaty, or abandon it. You can probably game the system by spending exactly the maximum cap on ships, and then when the war starts and the limits are removed, refit to a much stronger ship.

Of course, one of my old longstanding questions is:
Is the Carrier penalty still in the game?

If so, than old CV1s become a liability and thus it might actually be useful to convert them back to battleships/cruisers.



More than likely you can, you just will not be able to design them yourself.
I do believe that they should get naval xp from some of their naval focuses in MtG then. It will now be quite difficult to gain xp compared to the US who has 3/4ths of the oil in the game and who could train their fleets everyday in peacetime. Japan will really get screwed here if the only way to get naval xp is from their small skirmishes with China, and very few training sessions allowed because of lack of oil.

This is something easily changed by adding up what they used to have which was about 125 naval xp from the old focus tree. That or I guess I could just get one of the naval advisors, but then so can anyone else.

Please bring back the naval xp for Japan through their focuses - Paradox!!
 

Stug_Life

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@podcat Does your PRIDE OF THE FLEET get more war support based on how many ships you sink? It would incentivize people to not just hide their pride of the fleet.
 

Baldos

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in Dev Diary about Fuel and Motorized Arty this screen had A & P for oil need "Active need and potential need are now represented with “A” and “P,”" See Below:



Now it has C: and M: for oil need in the same screen for Japan see first picture....why?
 

pvt.conners

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in Dev Diary about Fuel and Motorized Arty this screen had A & P for oil need "Active need and potential need are now represented with “A” and “P,”" See Below:

Now it has C: and M: for oil need in the same screen for Japan see first picture....why?

C for current consumption and M for maximum consumption is less ambiguous I guess.
 

Meglok

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...I think one of the things this community has not put much thought into is just how much this DLC is going to disrupt the multiplayer meta. Right now the MP meta focuses a lot on spamming fuel-heavy units. Tank spam, plane spam, run heavy TDs in line infantry divisions to turn them into space marines.

This DLC is going to kill all of that.

Even countries that have more oil than they know what to do with, the refining mechanism prevents them from magically utilizing all that oil, so even oil-heavy countries like the Soviet Union and United States will run out of fuel if they try to spend it all at once.

Basically, now there is an incentive to actually use non-fuel consuming units in your OOB.
You are also missing how much more micro these decisions are going to take. Bye bye 5 speed.

Change, adapt, or die. A meta is only good until the next DLC or patch.

Can you tell your fleet to retreat if the situation looks bad?
99.9% certain I saw that mentioned previously. And you can sort of do it now, depending upon the differences in speed. But the new naval mechanics should have this mechanism. Assuming you are fast enough to get away, and haven't suffered damage slowing you.

Wonder if there is a "Ships Scatter and Proceed Independently" order, ala PQ 17?

Will you be able to license nation specific technologies, like the panzershiff or cruiser submarine
Don't see why not? You can't get nation specific bonuses, but building plans have always been fair game iirc.
 
Last edited:

Homer2101

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Will the AI be able to manage the oil stockpiles and fleet squadrons? The AI currently cannot tell the difference between a mountain fortress and an open field, and will routinely suicide a million soldiers into a line of fortifications. After the debacle that is the Stellaris AI in the current patch, I'm not terribly keen on purchasing any more DLC with terrible AI.
 

Farquarsen

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The AI currently cannot tell the difference between a mountain fortress and an open field, and will routinely suicide a million soldiers into a line of fortifications.
This is not correct. I played France yesterday with heavy fortifications and the AI did not bang its head on my forts.
 

Uriah

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It only took a full year to implement what unpaid modders have already done and what was alreasy in the previous game. YAY WE LOVE YOU PDX ONLY $19.99
I suspect you are a half glass empty person.

Or perhaps you don't realise that modders modify while game designers design. There is a huge difference between changing a group of basic game designs and modding an existing structure.

You seem to have a lot of Pdx games - don't you think it better to support one of the few companies that produces computer games that require thought rather than reflexes? To me $19.99 is a small price to pay for the many hundreds of hours of enjoyment I get from Pdx games. That is far less than the price of a meal, just over the cost of a movie ticket.

I am not some fanatic supporter of Pdx and have been quite critical of HOI4 - I have hardly played vanilla and I pre-bought the whole package. The game is finally looking as though I can play it through. But I am not unhappy at Pdx. In a world where Fortnite and its clones rule, I am grateful for what I get. I am also grateful for unpaid modders - I have played BI since it first put out its HOI3 mod.

Having said all that, my impatience for that which must not be named is at bursting point. Give me release!
 

Coach Bud Kilmer

Corporal
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Feb 26, 2016
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This is another good diary. These game recaps give us a lot of detail that doesn't always come across in traditional entries.

I hope you guys are reading comments like Farquarsen's here...

I want to be able to do the following:

1. Build naval carrier and land based planes scout, find, and kill the enemy. Planes should be able to sink carriers without surface fleet assistance.
2. I want to build a modern navy in the game without battleships and be successful. I should be able to do this.Battleships became obsolete for naval combat during WWII. They were not that effective in the battle of Leyte. Had Taffy 3 been under the command of a naval air admiral and not MacArthur, some of the aircraft would have been armed for ship combat and some armed to support the landings. Taffy 3 would have been even more successful against the IJN battleships and cruisers. That is why in modern navies, there aren't any battleships.
3. Build Cruisers, Light cruisers and destroyers that screen carriers and/or protect SLOCs.
3a. CLs and DDs protect SLOCs.
3b. CAs, CLs and DDs screen carriers in the rear not the front of the battle.
...and others like it that have come up in previous threads. The naval updates, ship builder, and fuel system look really promising, but carriers should be able to run from surface ships with greater ease. The instances of carriers being sunk by surface vessels were flukes, with aircraft and the submarine being the true counter to the carrier.

With the amount of thought and effort being put into this DLC it not only bodes well for Man the Guns, but also is really promising for the Soviet update and land combat rework when you eventually tackle For the Motherland 2.0.
 

bitmode

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Nov 10, 2016
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It's really disappointing to see how many people have only been asking about the release date, or whining about the nature of the dev diary. I found this update to be helpful, personally, and it was definitely nicer than having no update at all.
They specifically asked in the tweet accompanying the dev diary "let us know how you feel about this style of Dev Diary". And why would the alternative be to have no update at all?