HoI4 Dev Diary - The Imperial Japanese Navy (AAR)

HoI4 Dev Diary - The Imperial Japanese Navy (AAR)

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gman551

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This is just absurd. No excuse for this kind of delay. Even CA gave a nice explanation of why it took so long to implement Norsca into TWW2 and how it would throw off the content schedule.

What exactly has been happening for the past YEAR?

To add insult to injury podcat is acting as if its business as usual when under his direction Hoi4 has been outpaced by every other dev team at the company several times over.

No explanation, no apology, just releasing a multiplayer focused aar as if it was a fun extra right before release.

It's not hunky dory. There's no release date, not even a ballpark one. They've had all the time in the world.

This is an expansion, not half life 3 or ff XV.

At this point it looks more like star citizen.

I cant play promises, or aars, I cant play coming soons I'm sure people will say that it's going to be jam packed with content.

If it was that jam packed with stuff then they wouldn't be putting out a boring aar between players. Nobody cares about multiplayer. It's a small fraction of the overall games. Yes I'm sure a bunch if people will say they like it but they are still in the minority.

At this point it should be clear that this expansion is not coming until the summer at EARLIEST. It probably will not be great either.


I will gladly eat crow for days on end. I want to be wrong. I want it to be finished. I dont believe I am, whatever they've been doing for the past year, it seems like a tiny fraction of it has been finishing a project that should've been done at latest THREE MONTHS AGO.
 

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This is just absurd. No excuse for this kind of delay. Even CA gave a nice explanation of why it took so long to implement Norsca into TWW2 and how it would throw off the content schedule.

What exactly has been happening for the past YEAR?

To add insult to injury podcat is acting as if its business as usual when under his direction Hoi4 has been outpaced by every other dev team at the company several times over.

No explanation, no apology, just releasing a multiplayer focused aar as if it was a fun extra right before release.

It's not hunky dory. There's no release date, not even a ballpark one. They've had all the time in the world.

This is an expansion, not half life 3 or ff XV.

At this point it looks more like star citizen.

I cant play promises, or aars, I cant play coming soons I'm sure people will say that it's going to be jam packed with content.

If it was that jam packed with stuff then they wouldn't be putting out a boring aar between players. Nobody cares about multiplayer. It's a small fraction of the overall games. Yes I'm sure a bunch if people will say they like it but they are still in the minority.

At this point it should be clear that this expansion is not coming until the summer at EARLIEST. It probably will not be great either.


I will gladly eat crow for days on end. I want to be wrong. I want it to be finished. I dont believe I am, whatever they've been doing for the past year, it seems like a tiny fraction of it has been finishing a project that should've been done at latest THREE MONTHS AGO.
We're all in the same boat, even Paradox who wishes this expansion came out months ago. If there is a delay like this, one can only logically conclude that there is a good reason for it. It's not like they are doing this just to make us squirm.

The game was delayed quite a bit before release due to not being able to get the game working the way they wanted it too. I'm guessing the same thing is going on with this DLC.
 

Axe99

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Hello again,

today we should think about "Romanian(as part of axis) flotilla and the first EU-wide transportation river network:

IF:

Austria (part of Axis or occupied)
Yugoslavia (part of Axis or occupied)
Hungary (part of Axis or occupied)
Romania (part of Axis or occupied)

AND IF:

Rhine river
Main river
Donau river

100% under Axis control

THEN

Romania /Germany could decide to create the 30th U-boat flotilla for the black sea. It need around 1 year to transfer 6 small submarine from baltic sea to Black Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_U-boat_Flotilla

it happened in real ww2 is still miss this decision. I know the difficulties for programming ship transfers but if i play as New Zealand i can also demand 2 light cruisers from UK.
Any plans for this decision to create the 30th U-Boat Flotilla(as germany or axis romania)?
You're posting (imo at least) some interesting ideas, but might they be better served in the suggestions part of the forums (if you haven't already)? I could imagine they'd be easy to miss in a long-ish dev diary thread.

I cannot think of any carrier vs carrier battle that had their surface ships engaging with each other.
I think it was at the Battle of Santa Cruz where the Japanese surface 'vanguard' force got very close to the US ships scuttling Hornet - but you're quite right in that there was never a proper surface and carrier engagement in the same battle. Depending on what the actual HoI4 battles represent (at the moment they go on for a quite a while, so they could be interpreted as representing a clash between carrier aircraft during the day then surface fleets at night - iirc at one point Marc Mitscher wanted to send his BBs off to engage the Japanese surface forces at night, during the Battle of the Philippines Sea - but was sensibly overruled or decided otherwise (can't remember which). So as far as I understand it, it's not implausible that it would happen, even if it didn't really happen in the historical WW2.
 

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I think it was at the Battle of Santa Cruz where the Japanese surface 'vanguard' force got very close to the US ships scuttling Hornet - but you're quite right in that there was never a proper surface and carrier engagement in the same battle. Depending on what the actual HoI4 battles represent (at the moment they go on for a quite a while, so they could be interpreted as representing a clash between carrier aircraft during the day then surface fleets at night - iirc at one point Marc Mitscher wanted to send his BBs off to engage the Japanese surface forces at night, during the Battle of the Philippines Sea - but was sensibly overruled or decided otherwise (can't remember which). So as far as I understand it, it's not implausible that it would happen, even if it didn't really happen in the historical WW2.
Yes, and at Midway, Nagumo tried his best to close his 2 BB fleet with the US carriers after he'd lost all of his but couldn't get near them. The only time a surface fleet has touched a carrier fleet was at the battle of Leyte Gulf.

I'm not ruling it out that it shouldn't happen, but what I am saying is that carrier fleets that engage with enemy carrier fleets, never, not once, just sent all their BBs, CA/CLs, and DDs towards each other while they attacked from the air.

Carrier fleets fought each other from hundreds of KMs away, where the only contact was between the airplanes and the ships, not the ships vs the ships while the airplanes attacked the opposing carriers.

I'm not sure why the devs decided to do this, it's completely unrealistic, never happened, and it just doesn't need to happen. So now we are going to have carrier battles where your surface fleet take losses because they are shooting at the enemy surface fleet, and all of this because both sides decided to get within shooting distance with their surface ships guns.

They should have made a special mechanic to have carrier battles, in which the surface ships never even see each other.

Why? Because that is the way they were fought. There was no need to get that close, and this is why carrier fleets are the king of the oceans today, because they can project massive firepower against opposing fleets just from their aircraft.

Axe99, this is in no way an attack on you. I'm just trying to raise the issue so people start talking about it, and for the devs to take notice.

Carrier battles in the WW2 are the most important battles to get right, because those with carriers could dominate the seas.
 
Last edited:

Homer2101

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This is not correct. I played France yesterday with heavy fortifications and the AI did not bang its head on my forts.
From what I recall, the German AI is hardcoded not to attack the Maginot Line.

I last played about eight months ago as Japan, and the AI wasted upwards of 200k soldiers attacking two of my mountain forts in Italy.

Either way, question stands whether the AI will be able to manage the new resources and combat mechanics, or if we'll see a repeat of Stellaris' latest patch where the AI didn't know how to use the new mechanics and is flooded with free resources in an attempt to compensate for its incompetence.
 

IsThisOriginal

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From what I recall, the German AI is hardcoded not to attack the Maginot Line.
I'd have to disagree, a fair few times I've seen them push through the Maginot, I expect there are various factors that more often than not make them not willing to attack, though it remains a possibility.
 

corundum

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wow this dev diary sucks :/
 

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Last edited:

Daelyn75

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That is not exactly true
Thanks for that information. I literally didn't know about it. I guess in going over what happened in and around Norway, the history I read glossed over this part.

Now I am wondering why they had this:

"There is a degree of mystery about the sinking of the Glorious because papers relating to the sinking have a "100 year rule" embargo on their release."
 

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Yes, and at Midway, Nagumo tried his best to close his 2 BB fleet with the US carriers after he'd lost all of his but couldn't get near them. The only time a surface fleet has touched a carrier fleet was at the battle of Leyte Gulf.

I'm not ruling it out that it shouldn't happen, but what I am saying is that carrier fleets that engage with enemy carrier fleets, never, not once, just sent all their BBs, CA/CLs, and DDs towards each other while they attacked from the air.

Carrier fleets fought each other from hundreds of KMs away, where the only contact was between the airplanes and the ships, not the ships vs the ships while the airplanes attacked the opposing carriers.

I'm not sure why the devs decided to do this, it's completely unrealistic, never happened, and it just doesn't need to happen. So now we are going to have carrier battles where your surface fleet take losses because they are shooting at the enemy surface fleet, and all of this because both sides decided to get within shooting distance with their surface ships guns.

They should have made a special mechanic to have carrier battles, in which the surface ships never even see each other.

Why? Because that is the way they were fought. There was no need to get that close, and this is why carrier fleets are the king of the oceans today, because they can project massive firepower against opposing fleets just from their aircraft.

Axe99, this is in no way an attack on you. I'm just trying to raise the issue so people start talking about it, and for the devs to take notice.

Carrier battles in the WW2 are the most important battles to get right, because those with carriers could dominate the seas.
The way I use my carrier taskforces is to split them off from my main surface combatants with some escorts, set them to do not engage and use their CAG in the naval region in question on naval strike, seemed to get the job done prior to 1.5.1.
 

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I'm not ruling it out that it shouldn't happen, but what I am saying is that carrier fleets that engage with enemy carrier fleets, never, not once, just sent all their BBs, CA/CLs, and DDs towards each other while they attacked from the air.
Aye, definitely - I fully agree that while it shouldn't be impossible, it wouldn't be consistent with actual combat operations during the war to model carrier fleets' surface forces engaging every time. I haven't seen the stream, but the DD doesn't say this will be the case (although it also doesn't say it isn't).

Axe99, this is in no way an attack on you. I'm just trying to raise the issue so people start talking about it, and for the devs to take notice.
Not at all - I fully encourage vigorous, robust discussions, and at no point was it a personal attack :). You clearly laid out the facts (which you got right) and made a good case. We agree in this case, but even if we didn't, if you have a case you think holds water, you should push it - all of us make mistakes, and you never know if you'll be the one to get someone else back on track :).

From what I recall, the German AI is hardcoded not to attack the Maginot Line.
This is a while ago now, but in a game as Belgium, I built up level ten forts to see what would happen, and Germany left me well alone. Even level seven forts around most of Czechoslovakia, as well as they take advantage of the terrain, can deter most attacks by the Axis. Not that I'm suggesting these are particularly fun ways to play - I was just kind of seeing what'd happen (and for Czechoslovakia there's a focus for that :)).

I'd have to disagree, a fair few times I've seen them push through the Maginot, I expect there are various factors that more often than not make them not willing to attack, though it remains a possibility.
Watch out for French troops leaving gaps in the Maginot, often when Italy enters the war, or Germany attacks the Netherlands and Belgium. The French sometimes redeploy their troops, and Germany can take advantage of this to nab part of the line. That said, with enough airpower and persistence, I'm pretty sure it should be possible to brute force it as well.
 

DoktorJo

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What roll will the fuel System play exactly? Will motorized units not be able to move anymore, kif you are out of fuel?
 

Daelyn75

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What roll will the fuel System play exactly? Will motorized units not be able to move anymore, kif you are out of fuel?
Good question. I'd guess they'd move really slowly, but that's just a guess based upon my knowledge of this and previous HOI games. I've never seen a unit that just cannot move. You also might be able to strategic redeploy it to get it out of there so long as there is a link to your lines.

does that army xp doctrine thingy work with naval xp and naval doctrines aswell?
I believe it goes for all doctrines.
 

Catharsis27

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You're posting (imo at least) some interesting ideas, but might they be better served in the suggestions part of the forums (if you haven't already)? I could imagine they'd be easy to miss in a long-ish dev diary thread.



I think it was at the Battle of Santa Cruz where the Japanese surface 'vanguard' force got very close to the US ships scuttling Hornet - but you're quite right in that there was never a proper surface and carrier engagement in the same battle. Depending on what the actual HoI4 battles represent (at the moment they go on for a quite a while, so they could be interpreted as representing a clash between carrier aircraft during the day then surface fleets at night - iirc at one point Marc Mitscher wanted to send his BBs off to engage the Japanese surface forces at night, during the Battle of the Philippines Sea - but was sensibly overruled or decided otherwise (can't remember which). So as far as I understand it, it's not implausible that it would happen, even if it didn't really happen in the historical WW2.
Thanks for the info, i posted something about island hopping as well as naval invasion(s) months ago in suggestions, till today 0.0 answers. Heres my solution for island hopping......[copy &paste my old post from suggestiions. Maybe its bad like hell or good, but in my opinion it looks more realistic. Lets try together an open discussion and finding a solution for the problem (many ppl have). If you dont like please show us YOUR solution.

---------------------------
Posted in suggestions Sept.2018:


Also i believe if you plan for example a naval invasion over huge distance the amount of transport vessels should rise X² (per sea region crossed) cause its not that easy. At moment its far to easy.

Maybe :

Number of transport needed = Y
Sea region crossed = X
Number of battalions = B
Support batalion = C
Number of Tanks, motorised infantry, cavalry (battalions,not the number of tanks and so on)...... = T

Y = (B+C+T²)*X²

-----------------------
new:

Of course it could be neccessary to adjust the formula a little bit but that would only be possible if integrated and tested ingame, i cant do that.

My newest opinios was to add wheater like this W= wheater 1=good wheather(summer), 1,5=spring,autumn 2=winter

Y =[ (B+C+T²)*X² ] * W

So if you plan a naval invasion from UK to China it wont be posible cause the number of transport would be some 10000, as in real. I really dont know if the dev team does changing anything at naval invasions yet. But if you play now it is possible to do such cracy stuff like invasions from USA direct to Japan and so on. With my solution you must DO island hopping otherwise the needed number would rise so massively that it would become impossible.

Thanks in advance for your help, and share YOUR ideas how to fix this problem.............by the way: Naval invasions are so complex that in real Allies planned about 1 year for operation Overlord the landing in France..............they needed around 5300 ships just for hopping from UK to france.........
 
Last edited:

xoldfashionedx

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I'm not sure i'm missing something so feel free to correct me, Apart from fuel limitations what will stop players from doom stacking their ships.
 

Iskulya

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I'm not sure i'm missing something so feel free to correct me, Apart from fuel limitations what will stop players from doom stacking their ships.
Don't worry, they mentioned this in one of the dev diaries. There is a new statistic, positioning, which will be extremely low for doomstacks in addition to big org penalties. Low positioning essentially means that the fleet's capital ships will not be protected by screens, which combined with low org should mean that a small, but powerful and well organized fleet should, in theory, be able to inflict some crippling capital ship losses and route the enemy doomstack while taking very little losses or damage themselves. That's just assuming I've understood the mechanic correctly and that it's actually properly implemented!
 

HolyAmericanEmpire

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This is just absurd. No excuse for this kind of delay. Even CA gave a nice explanation of why it took so long to implement Norsca into TWW2 and how it would throw off the content schedule.

What exactly has been happening for the past YEAR?

To add insult to injury podcat is acting as if its business as usual when under his direction Hoi4 has been outpaced by every other dev team at the company several times over.

No explanation, no apology, just releasing a multiplayer focused aar as if it was a fun extra right before release.

It's not hunky dory. There's no release date, not even a ballpark one. They've had all the time in the world.

If it was that jam packed with stuff then they wouldn't be putting out a boring aar between players. Nobody cares about multiplayer. It's a small fraction of the overall games. Yes I'm sure a bunch if people will say they like it but they are still in the minority.

At this point it should be clear that this expansion is not coming until the summer at EARLIEST. It probably will not be great either.
I understand being upset that the DLC has taken so long to release and I personally wish Paradox would take action to speed up the production of DLC content. They need to put more members on the team or do SOMETHING to help produce content quicker. Quicker, but still quality content, would increase profits a lot and I'm surprised the heads at Paradox haven't done anything to help the Hoi4 team get content out at, at least a relatively close rate to some of their other games at this point. The content we have been shown for this DLC looks superb so I have withheld complaints about production time, but what you have done is the wrong way to do it. Being rude and explicitly negative is not going to help anything or anyone.