HOI4 Dev Diary - The Baltic States 2/2

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TheDungen

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Seriously there's a pagan path but no monarchist path for Latvia or Estonia?

Also the way to align with the German minority is to align with the nazis...? You do realize the nazis didn't exactly treat the baltic Germans well, most of them ended up in certain bad places we're not suposed to mention here. Like one in ten of them were deemed fit to be Germans.

Seems like there should be more democratic or neutral options here not just go fascist communist or be a good little pawn for the allies.
 
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Fulmen

The Winter War was only 7% of Finland's WW2
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Balt39.png

Any plans to correct the eastern boundaries of Estonia and Latvia to what they were historically when they were independent? I have Petseri in mind in particular. It kind of looks like Latvia's border is already fixed, but there's a strange gap there that wasn't there before the USSR shifted the Latvian SSR's borders in 1944.

Starting with Estonia, we have two starting focuses: Rally the Nation or the Era of Silence. Historically, the Era of Silence was a time in Estonian history where Konstantin Päts suspended all elections in Estonia out of fear of the fascist Vaps Movement.
Balt01.png

Historically when the Russians took over Estonia in June 1940, as a desperate, but doomed, last ditch effort to save the country, Konstantin Päts proposed a union with Finland to the Finnish government. Is there nothing on this?

While going down this path, the Vaps will gradually grow more and more agitated, and the player must use a series of focuses and decisions to prevent the nation from fracturing into a civil war. Once the Vaps are dealt with, Päts stands ready to prepare the nation for the inevitable wars to come.
Balt02.png

Are crackdowns of this extent historical, or are they exaggerated to make the game more exciting? My understanding is it's a case of the latter (similar to how the anarchists are greatly exaggerated in the Spanish Civil War, for example, or how Edward VIII's abdication was turned into a minigame to farm stability and political power before abdicating), and I'm not really a fan of that. I believe each country should have a fully historical path as an option, and that option should be the default on historical mode.

Rally the Nation has the player take control of the Vaps in a series of decisions much similar to Britain’s fascist marches, whereby the Vaps must rally public support for their movement and overthrow the government. This culminates in a march on Tallinn and taking over in a civil war.
Balt06.png


From here, it’s a race against time to bolster the military and ready the nation for war. As a movement made mostly of veteran’s societies, the Vaps have access to some powerful military bonuses and free units.
Balt07.png


On top of that, the Vaps held close connections to the far-right veterans in Finland and as such, once they have taken over Estonia, they stand ready to give official support to the Finns to do the same in their own country by organizing marches through Finland.
Balt08.png

Can the USSR intervene to stop Estonia from going fascist, or do they have to sit idly by and watch as their frontiers are consumed by likely new enemies? Same question about Finland, Latvia and Lithuania. Realistically such dangerous political instability, particularly if it resulted in a civil war, would have resulted in a Russian invasion and propping up of communist puppet governments, and subsequent annexation into the USSR.


I think a border to the Urals, rather than over it, would have been more natural. It was seen as the natural eastern border of such a Pan-Finnic state by the dreamers who theorised about it (although you could also make the case that it's so fantastical that might as well go beyond into Siberia where there were native peoples that spoke certain Ugric tongues). Also the lands of the Veps, Tver Karelians, possibly the Livonians and a few other Finnic nations still around at the time should be included.

This is one idea of the boundaries of such a state (notice it too crosses the Urals a bit), the image is actually from a book cover:

1621443598461.png


The Baltics may also choose to do as they did historically: granting basing rights to either the Soviets or Germany, and eventually submitting to their occupation. Should the Baltics submit to Soviet occupation, they will switch to their shared communist branch.

The Baltic States agreed to Russian demands for Red Army bases and troops on their soil, which culminated in a coup d'état in all three countries which saw them become puppets of the USSR and subsequently annexed into it. Is this modelled accurately in historical mode if the Baltic States are AI?

Furthermore, the Russians used their bases in Estonia and Latvia to bomb Finland during the Winter War (and indeed the Finnish Air Force retaliated by bombing said bases in Estonia - plans for bombing equivalent bases in Latvia existed but the war ended before they could be carried out). This usage of said bases was against the agreements signed with the Baltic States, but they were powerless to do anything about it (the bases were supposedly meant for defensive purposes only). Is this modelled in the game?

EDIT: From Carl-Fredrik Geust's Red Wings in the Winter War 1939-40, p. 327:

FAFLatviaPlan1940.jpg
 
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Have you thought about reshaping the map of South America!? It does not go to the subject but as a South American I would like a little more prominence and at least more than just three states in the case of Venezuela or just one province in Ecuador!
 
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MrMcQue

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I wonder how many players asked for a Ugro-Finnic empire. :rolleyes:
Geez...

WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE TREE????

It's not like the devs sat there and spent 90% of their time on making a stupid Finno-Ugra tree which is like 4 focuses. FOUR!!!!

In 99% of all games you wont ever see those focuses taken, they take no significant time away from the devs, and no, Italy will not be featured in this expansion, for the 15879254th time.
 
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DeadRabbit

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I was waiting for this DD and I'm not disappointed. Thank you for interesting Baltic States' content! Really want to play as all new EE countries ASAP!
Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian SSR made me curious about what devs are going to do with other SSRs. I feel there is only one fair variant - make them also as puppets of Soviet Union with unique Soviet puppet category (Soviet Republic). Because all of them had similar situation of dependency from Moscow. And of course Belarusian and Ukrainian SSRs as first SSRs (with RSFSR and Transcaucasian SFSR) to form USSR in 1922 and as founding members of UN (because of Stalin's plan to have more votes) are not less worthy than Baltic SSRs to have this puppet status in-game.
 
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Brownsnoot44

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Why should I be making a mod? Is this an answer to any criticism? Make it yourself?

I am just pointing to a trend of fantasy alt history, instead of still interesting believable alt history. It is my humble opinion. Nothing more than that. And frustration.
Cuz i wanna see ur idea of Yugoslavia forming the United Baltics with the help of the Soviets
 
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Ger1X

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Hey devs you can also add Lithuanian government in exile (in africa) which was a possibility at the time. You can google it for more information, kinda hard to find it because it was unfulfilled decision.
 
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Flamie

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I feel that the Empire of Finno-Ugra is a bit of a weird name considering you don't unite the Magyars (Hungarians) under your banner. The Finnic Empire or something like that might be a better choice of words.
 
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IndigoRage

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I feel that the Empire of Finno-Ugra is a bit of a weird name considering you don't unite the Magyars (Hungarians) under your banner. The Finnic Empire or something like that might be a better choice of words.
idk, as I said elsewhere it's only about as weird as the fact we call Germany Germany despite it never containing all Germans and Yugoslavia Yugoslavia despite it missing one of the major South Slavic powers. It is a weird name in my opinion because "Finno-Ugric Empire" sounds nicer grammatically and doesn't refer to a random small river in northern Russia though.
 
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Can the USSR intervene to stop Estonia from going fascist, or do they have to sit idly by and watch as their frontiers are consumed by likely new enemies? Same question about Finland, Latvia and Lithuania. Realistically such dangerous political instability, particularly if it resulted in a civil war, would have resulted in a Russian invasion and propping up of communist puppet governments, and subsequent annexation into the USSR.
I really like this idea of the Soviets jumping at the opportunity to intervene in the Baltics. Especially if while the Spanish civil was was going on, as well as teh Baltic troubles, they would suffer a loss in stability if they intervened in both
 
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Balt35.png


Anyone noticed that part of the interface is hidden? On other screenshots it can be seen, but for some reason it was hidden on this screenshot :confused:
 
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"Finno-Ugric Empire" sounds nicer grammatically
I agree, I'd be fine if they changed the name to that. But calling youself Ugric when you have no Ugric lands is a bit weird, at least Germany had most Germans and Yugoslavia had most South Slavs