HoI4 Dev Diary - Soviet Union Exiles

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Bratyn

Content Design Lead
Paradox Staff
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Dec 25, 2012
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“Comrade Bratyn, you have been found guilty of counter-WW2 activity. You have been seen consorting with citizens and even figurehead ideologues of the Imperator team. Undeniable proof of work by your hand can be seen in publications by this group of dissidents made over the course of the past year. You do not fool us. We know “Drikus” is just another alias you use.
“Your attempts at shirking your duties to the Team will not be tolerated. Discussion of the Classical Period is wholly unacceptable behaviour for a HoI4 citizen; publication of treasonous material is a crime far, far worse. You are hereby stripped of your rank and sentenced to the mines in HoI-beria. Perhaps a year’s hard labor working on good, proper WW2 material will enable you to see the errors of your ways, and rehabilitate you sufficiently to regain your previous liberties.
“Comrade Bratyn, I will not welcome you back. You were foolish to think you could ever leave, in the first place.”


Hello everyone, and welcome to the third (yes you read that right) dev diary on the Soviet Union focus tree! And yes, in the words of a famous hero who fought valiantly and sacrificed himself for the defense of Earth some 25 years ago: “Hello boys! I’m baaaaaaaaaack!” Not to worry, though! Unlike Russel, I’m not here to destroy the project by dealing catastrophic damage to the superweapon that is this very next DLC that we’re unleashing upon a collection of RVs near a remote and officially non-existing military base in Nevada the world. That requires backbone, and we’re not allowed to have one of those here in HoI-beria.

It has already been explained in previous DDs that the sheer size of the Soviet tree has meant multiple CDs have been slaving away working proudly on it. This has been doubly the case for the non-Communist branches (which the eagle-eyed among you already noticed in last week's diary must lurk off to the side of the picture you were shown): the collection of CDs that have contributed to these branches have almost been as numerous and varied as the groups comprising the White Movement that inspired them... *Laughs nervously, glancing at his room’s locked door* While I initially was given some background features to toil away on, I eventually was drafted into this group of laborers-- *Glances at the silhouettes of guards visible through the window in the door, sweating this time and continuing in an excessively loud voice* ...Erhhh, I-I mean, I volunteered for this honorable task to contribute in some small way to the ever-increasing glory of the HoI4 Team, which has so graciously and mercifully deigned to allow me to prove my unceasing loyalty through my labor! *Sweats profusely* ...I, uh, am also proud to have volunteered as… as spokesman for this assembled group of CDs, and tell you all about what we’ve been doing!

*Clears throat raspily* Very well, let’s get started.


The Exiles

In 1936 the so-called White Movement was in shambles. Despite extensive international support, the Bolsheviks had eventually defeated the loose and diverse anti-Communist coalition (who really only agreed on one point: that the communists must be defeated) that vied for control of the country in the Russian Civil War. With many of their leaders dead, much of the remnants of the Whites fled the country rather than be purged. Many of these fled to Manchuria, which in the early 1930s was invaded and occupied by the Japanese.

In the years afterwards these exiles in Manchuria were supported by the Japanese to cause problems for the Soviets across the border (including such intrepid endeavours as erecting a giant neon swastika 3km from the Soviet-Manchurian border). While certainly not the only collection of White exiles in the world, they were the only ones to be in any conceivable position to do any material damage whatsoever to the Soviet state. If an anti-Soviet uprising was to take place, it would therefore likely be in the old White-controlled areas of the Far East and Siberia: far from the tightly-controlled industrial areas of the far west of the Soviet Union, and where Japanese equipment and support would be most forthcoming.

Are you up for the challenge of ousting the Bolsheviks after all, guiding the nation through an Electric Boogaloo of Russian civil wars, reinstating the Romanovs, and, finally, returning its former Glory to the Russian Empire?

Exiles_full.png

The Build-Up

If so, the only way to affect such a drastic change by the mid-1930s is through civil war.

In many ways the build-up to the Civil War for the Nationalists and the Tsarists plays similar to the Communist Opposition build-ups, albeit with a somewhat different touch. The red army is highly politicized so you will find it harder to actually gain a large following there, and you won’t get any support from the NKVD either. But let’s look at the “pre-civil-war” part of the tree:

precivilwar branch.png

This part of the branch all revolves around various ways in which to prepare for the civil war: obtaining equipment, units, factories, national spirits, decisions, and even advisors for when the civil war kicks off. At the same time, decisions allow you to spread your influence (starting in the Far East) throughout the Soviet Union, readying states for an uprising to coincide with crossing the border from Manchuria. Despite this preparatory work, however, the Soviets have solidified their power tremendously over the past 20 years, and this war will be a challenge.

approach semyonov.png


Religion

One way of preparing for the continuation of the counterrevolution, and undermining communist support, is to gain the support of the church. Some of the Orthodox Church’s bishops (‘metropolitans’) had fled abroad rather than cooperate with such a militant atheist government as Stalin’s. Others elected to stay, and in 1927 Patriarch Sergy issued a divisive Proclamation on behalf of the Russian Orthodox Church that professed absolute loyalty to the Communist government of the country. Many metropolitans broke communion with him as a result. Despite the proclamation, 1931 still saw the destruction of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow, to make room for a colossal Palace of the Soviets. These are the kinds of decisions that need to be overturned to return faith and religion to the central position that it deserves in Russian society, providing suitable rewards accordingly.

article 124.png


religion branch.png

Eventually, you may begin the war:

the hands do.png


As stated, it will not be easy, and the Soviets enjoy a tremendous military and industrial advantage over you. You will have to make intelligent use of your resources and subversive activities to level the playing field even slightly and make an unlikely victory happen. Luckily, the possibility of foreign aid exists, though even this may not be enough. The final ‘ace in the hole’ is swallowing your pride and making the Japanese an offer they cannot resist: the elimination of a rival power to their northwest, major territorial gains on the Pacific coast, and even the installation of a subject regime in the power vacuum their rival’s collapse would create… All this might buy their direct involvement, but the price is very high...

Consolidation

civilwar recovery.png

Once the civil war has been won, it is now time to consolidate your power, rebuild the war-torn nation, and replace the White provisional government with the more stable will of a Romanov. This calls for the convening of a Zemsky Sobor, who will elect Tsar Vladimir I to this position.

return of the tsar.png


These focuses (and some of the later religious branch’s focuses) also will also spark the return of many anti-Communist exiles to their homeland. From here, you may continue to embrace either of the two predominant ideological flows that comprise the White Movement:

tsarist fascist branches.png

The first of these is the Tsarist branch - solidifying the Tsar’s autocratic control over the country and restoring the Romanov dynasty. This branch seeks to restore the Russian Empire’s old borders; reconquering the many states that were lost after the Great War, and pushing beyond.

tsarist branch.png

The second of these is the Fascist branch - turning over power to Rodzaevsky and reducing the Tsarist to a figurehead monarch, like in many nations in the West. Under this leadership, the embarrassments of old will be redressed and avenged; in particular the Empire’s defeat at the hands of Japan over 30 years prior. This path also focuses on naval build-up in the far east, and even explores bold forays into the Americas…

fascist branch.png

Finally, a doublet of formable nations exist for these branches. As the Tsarists, it is possible to extol the unity of the Slavic Peoples, and truly take up the role of their Protector. Be strong enough, be liked enough, and Slavic nations under threat will join you willingly. If not, you may take them by force. Regardless of how you unify them: you may form a grand Union of the Slavs if you succeed in this task.

panslavic nationalism.png


panslavic nationalism decisions.png


Alternatively (and open to both branches), you might emphasize the role of the Church in the new nation you have created. Choosing this spiritual path will elevate the Metropolitan of Harbin to leader of the nation, and opens up the ability to claim Russia’s rightful place as the only true heirs of an empire long gone…

third rome.png


Finally, I’ll briefly hand over the word to Comrade @Wrongwraith.

New Releasables

As hinted in last week's DD we’ve also added a few more releasable countries that can become independent in a peace deal or through focuses. So basically all SSR’s, ASSR’s and some of the Okrugs of the USSR are covered, as well as some other countries that existed before the establishment of the Soviet Union in 1922.

To give you an idea, the map can now look like this:

fragmented_SU.png

Some of the releasable countries overlap. For example, the Far Eastern Republic has cores on both Chukotka and Vladivostok as well. The map above shows as many simultaneous countries as possible in the Soviet Union area.

And of course this means loads of new flags. Some of you guessed right last week! The flags shown were for an independent communist Karelia and a non-aligned Buryat Republic.

And there are loads more, like this one for example:

sakha_republic.png


In addition, we added a few new formables for those countries, just in case you feel like reforming Idel Ural for example.



Now, with that out of the way: that was all from us for today! It should go without saying that the tree is still being actively worked on, and so what you saw here may not represent 100% what is eventually released. I do hope you liked this little peek into what’s going on with the not-so-Communist Soviet things! *Attempts to feign a joyful laugh, but then glances nervously at the door again, leans forward, and adds in an urgent whisper:* I mean it… If I don’t meet my quota of likes and get a ratio of above 90% for this diary I’ll be scrubbing keyboards for a month!

Oh - almost forgot - the Soviet Focus Tree behemoth as of currently:


soviet.jpg





... .- ...- . / -- . -.-.-- / .-.. .- ... - / -. .. --. .... - / - .... . / -.-. .- -- .--. / --- -. .-.. -.-- / ..-. . -.. / -- . / .- / ... .-- . -.. .. ... .... / -... .- -. .- -. .- -....- .- -. -.. -....- -.-. ..- .-. .-. -.-- / .--. .. --.. --.. .- -.-.--
 
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And of course the silly, implausible, Russia fresh out of civil war invading USA style focuses continue. Russian empire saying were pan Slavic and willingly annexing entirety of Eastern Europe. Jesus Christ. This game died with HOI3

As the devs stats tracking has showed, there's a demand for these kind of focusses. Hell, I'm a generally historically plausible player, but I've played over 1500 hours of HoI4 and I like to mix it up with something silly every now and again. However, when I don't, there's always the "historical national focuses" option (and even more fine control over focus paths in the game rules). This has been mentioned numerous times over the years, but you don't have to play with those options if you don't want to.

There's nothing wrong with disliking it of course - no-one is likely to like everything about a game as complex and content-rich as HoI4 (whether it's something included, or something not included - everyone has their pet area of interest that they'd like to see more of something than the community more broadly is likely to be interested in) - and nothing wrong with speaking up about it, but the idea that this focus tree has somehow 'ruined' HoI4 is something of a stretch. I'm personally hoping for historical playthroughs that the greater love for the USSR, combined with the supply system, will hopefully give us the best historical-ish Eastern Front experience in the series.
 
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As a result: there are no liberals, no socialists-revolutionaries, no opposition among the Soviet military, no anarchists, no solidarists, monarchists are represented by one candidate, even without the possibility of a regent. (only for fascists)
The only realistic alternative is military oppositions, what socialists-revolutionaries bruh, we are talking about 30s, SRs had no power in 30s, same with anarchists and liberals. The problem with this tree is not a lack of alternatives, the problem is that existing alternatives are a pure fiction that is based on nothing and disregards common sense, historical content that could be used properly and the holy canons of the orthodox church. Adding more absolutely unrealistic alternatives won't fix anything but will worsen the existing problems of this tree. Before adding any althistory developers must do a research on topic, otherwise the content will be on the level of polish and soviet focuses
 
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According to my earlier poll, some 94% of respondents want PDX to just take their time, charge a little bit more, sure, but to actually deliver the comprehensive and well thought out tree many here have been discussing.

If any devs are listening, please respond!
They did? USSR has one of the most extensive trees in the game.
 
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They did? USSR has one of the most extensive trees in the game.
Yes. But you can see 29 pages of people mostly listing why they don't like it. And whether for reasons founded or unfounded, these are the people who are going to be buying the finished product. I would say that whatever your view, one should at the very least respect the fact that those who are willing to pay for it want something that they feel will not be provided. And that it behooves the devs to listen to.
 
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I'm sure you've heard this enough already but I figure it's worth throwing my opinion in as well considering how much I play hoi4. I know that for a lot of people playing democratic is a boring and almost entirely reactive playstyle but it's still a nice addition to have, especially when you consider all the flavor an early federal republic could have. I think that although democracy is probably a disfavored playstyle by most players it's worth having each political path be as well crafted as the communist half of the focus tree.
 
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I hope you are still open for the ideas. I fixed/adjusted some things from my previous suggestion, i would be glad if you look at it when you have time.

Well done, I like this take on the tree. It doesn't take much tweaking to fix a lot of the issues. @Bratyn please consider something like this.
 
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USSR isn't getting a Democratic path for the same reason Germany isn't getting a Communist path - this is a war simulator, not a politics simulator, and by 1942, Britain, Soviets or Germany has to start the war.
You're right, somebody hast to be the bad guy, otherwise the party will not start. Yet, there is only one bad guy needed - and this could be achieved with some hidden interlocks.
 
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Yes. But you can see 29 pages of people mostly listing why they don't like it. And whether for reasons founded or unfounded, these are the people who are going to be buying the finished product. I would say that whatever your view, one should at the very least respect the fact that those who are willing to pay for it want something that they feel will not be provided. And that it behooves the devs to listen to.
Agree. It seems to me that there has been no such discussion for a long time.
 
Согласно моему предыдущему опросу, около 94% респондентов хотят, чтобы PDX просто не торопился, заряжал немного больше, конечно, но на самом деле предоставлял исчерпывающее и хорошо продуманное дерево, которое многие здесь обсуждали.

Если разработчики вас слушают, ответьте!
I agree, it is better to wait a couple of months than to receive an unfinished product. It always seemed to me that the paradox office is distinguished precisely by its quality and elaboration and does not seek to fit into the time frame
 
A USSR democratic path could only work if the Right Opposition won and went too far with market reforms.
Personally, I am considering a potential democratic path for the USSR or the transition to social democracy through Bukharin, if he is very keen on liberal reforms or through the dictatorship of the Belakh generals with a gradual transition to democratic rule
 
Honestly, compared to the Communist branches this looks incredibly bland, like it was made during Death or Dishonour days.

There is little exploration of the various monarchist movements, let alone liberal democratic approaches. Mladorossi, alternate monarchs, so many things to explore, that this looks fairly cheap in comparison.

Not to mention that this will most certainly be a painful tree to progress through given a certain someone knocking at the door.
Tsarist Russia, is altogether fictional scenario for that time period; its really niche thing, and kinda useless waste of of effort, in grand scheme of things. The whole effort should be on Soviet side of things in that tree.
 
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Царская Россия - это полностью выдуманный сценарий для того периода времени; это действительно нишевая вещь и своего рода бесполезная трата усилий по большому счету. В этом дереве все усилия должны быть на советской стороне.
But why did the alternative routes work so well for Poland, while the leading front of Germany got this for 4 years? The developers have shown very well that they can do insanely cool, but for some reason they don't want to :(
 
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I hope you are still open for the ideas. I fixed/adjusted some things from my previous suggestion, i would be glad if you look at it when you have time.

this looks good, even if the devs don't do an extensive update on the focus they have presented I hope at least they will take your suggestion into consideration.
 
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You're right, somebody hast to be the bad guy, otherwise the party will not start. Yet, there is only one bad guy needed - and this could be achieved with some hidden interlocks.
Why is the assumption that Democratic-ideology countries necessarily get along? In KR you can have SPD Germany and Democratic Russia fight without any issues.
 
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Thanks for your support, guys! I updated/cleaned up some things on CM mini tree to make it feel more immersive and less clunky, probably the last version. I hope Paradox will consider this.

Exiles v3.png
 
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Why is the assumption that Democratic-ideology countries necessarily get along? In KR you can have SPD Germany and Democratic Russia fight without any issues.
Ad far as I know, there is exactly one example in history where countries which really deserved the designation "democratic" were at war with each other, and this were some allied bombing raids on Finnland during WW2, and even these raids were very limited. So generally speaking, democrats don't shot at each other.
 
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