HOI4 Dev Diary - Scout Planes and breaking the Enigma - and Stream premieres today at 16:00CET!

HOI4 Dev Diary - Scout Planes and breaking the Enigma - and Stream premieres today at 16:00CET!

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
Dec 8, 2019
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Is there any chance in this DLC that France can maybe get some more generals, they don't have that many right now, and many important generals like Gaston-Henri Billote (commander of the 1st French army group), George Maurice Jean Blanchard (commander of the 1st French army, and later 1st army group), Rene Olry (commander of the Army des Alps facing Italy), and Andre-Gaston Pretelat (who commanded the 2nd army group) are missing? I also think it would be a nice addition with the new French focus tree.
 

George Parr

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You're trying to manufacture limitations that don't exist in real life, thus making the game more limiting and illogical. A small nation has less space to build on and less population to bring into work, that results in a smaller industry. But it's up to the nation to decide how to use that industry. Are they going to mass produce a few things, or are they going to manufacture a bit of everything? That's a decision up for the player to make, not a decision that should be taken by the games design. You're basically tying up the hands of players forcing them to play in a "railroaded" way.
On the contrary, I have them with the limitations they actually had. You are the one who is trying to change them into something they never were and never could have been.

You are saying it yourself: it is up to the player to decide what he can build and what is unaffordable to him. That is exactly what I stated above. A minor nation has limited resources in terms of manpower, industrial capacity and resources. As such, it has to look at what it realistically can build. It is completely illogical to move away from that and hand out more industry so that these nations can now build everything. A player is perfectly free to spend six factories on six different types of equiment, or to spend them on just one or two things. Exactly like it should be.

There is no reason to give a minor nation more factories just so it can build more stuff. There needs to be an actual valid reason as for why it should have more factories. "i can't build everything that I want to build" is not a valid reason. That is in fact exactly the kind of trouble you are supposed to deal with while leading such a nation.
 

fighting_falcon93

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On the contrary, I have them with the limitations they actually had. You are the one who is trying to change them into something they never were and never could have been.

You are saying it yourself: it is up to the player to decide what he can build and what is unaffordable to him. That is exactly what I stated above. A minor nation has limited resources in terms of manpower, industrial capacity and resources. As such, it has to look at what it realistically can build. It is completely illogical to move away from that and hand out more industry so that these nations can now build everything. A player is perfectly free to spend six factories on six different types of equiment, or to spend them on just one or two things. Exactly like it should be.

There is no reason to give a minor nation more factories just so it can build more stuff. There needs to be an actual valid reason as for why it should have more factories. "i can't build everything that I want to build" is not a valid reason. That is in fact exactly the kind of trouble you are supposed to deal with while leading such a nation.
I didn't ask for more industry. I asked for more factories with less production in each.

5 * 5.0 = 25
10 * 2.5 = 25
50 * 0.5 = 25


As you see, this keeps the capacity the same, but it allows more flexibility.

And that is exactly how it's in real life. Small factories produce less but they take less space, large factories produce more but they take more space. We don't have factory sizes in this game, so instead make all factories small and then allow players to distribute them as they need. What you're saying here is basically that a small nation that wants to produce infantry weapons, infantry equipment and artillery cannot also produce their own planes. Of course they can if they want. If they make their factories half as small, they can suddenly have twice as many. Although that also results in the factories producing half as much.

Just because you have a higher factory count doesn't mean that you don't have to deal with the low industrial capacity of small nations, since you also need a certain quantity of stuff for it be effective.
 
Last edited:

bitmode

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We don't have factory sizes in this game, so instead make all factories small and then allow players to distribute them as they need
The factories are already small. A single factory produces about 2 trucks per day.
 

robomax

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Will CODE talkers (Navajo and Apaches) be apart of Encryption ? Special Focus for the USA?
 

Kokoda

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Code Cracking
One of the things in WW2 that has always fascinated me was the allied efforts to break the axis codes, particularly the work done at Bletchley Park. When reading about this work you usually are told about the tough choices that had to be made, because after the enigma codes had been cracked and german messages could be read the allies were forced to only use this knowledge in limited ways. If they had not it would have tipped off the Germans that they knew and made the whole thing moot. Basically, to save the punch for when it was most needed. This is something I wanted to make sure that we captured when we started designing the new code cracking system.
Question are you going to reference Alan Turing anywhere in this DLC.
It would be nice
 

Dan1109

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Will CODE talkers (Navajo and Apaches) be apart of Encryption ? Special Focus for the USA?
A PP based decision would certainly be a nice touch (USA should have plenty of PP by '44). It should certainly be split between using them in Pacific vs. Europe. No idea why they weren't used in Europe, other than apparently they were absolutely needed in the Pacific due to JAP Army Sig Intel.
 

Dan1109

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Question are you going to reference Alan Turing anywhere in this DLC.
It would be nice
I'm sure it will be a Decision/Event for the UK. Bletchley/Turing was so absolutely game changing, you simply can't make it as part of the base mechanics that GER/USA/SOV have access to. However, its effects shouldn't last until after '45, when the rest of the world caught up.

The UBoat mechanics still aren't balanced. As a human, I find it a PITA (using EAI with excellent production scripts) to deal with as the Allies. It should certainly be available by '42 to help turn the tide in regards to Naval/UBoat Intel. As well, it should help against D-Day because while the phantom armies is an interesting feature, I don't think it will be able to properly reproduce Operation Quicksilver).

But this all comes down to how they are changing Invasion mechanics with Intel. Will they remove the silly "warning, naval invasion" which I don't think has any intel basis whatsoever? (even worse, it doesn't update you when the enemy invasion has launched from their source ports, as the AI will be forever planning invasions but many times won't have the troops or naval superiority to launch). Or will invasion warnings be done properly, ALL based on Intel. And will the AI plan invasions with ENOUGH troops to do the job, based on its Intel....and will the AI rush defenders/Navy to places where it believes the Invasions are going to happen?
 

robomax

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  1. I didn't ask for more industry. I asked for more factories with less production in each.
5 * 5.0 = 25
10 * 2.5 = 25
50 * 0.5 = 25


As you see, this keeps the capacity the same, but it allows more flexibility.

And that is exactly how it's in real life. Small factories produce less but they take less space, large factories produce more but they take more space. We don't have factory sizes in this game, so instead make all factories small and then allow players to distribute them as they need. What you're saying here is basically that a small nation that wants to produce infantry weapons, infantry equipment and artillery cannot also produce their own planes. Of course they can if they want. If they make their factories half as small, they can suddenly have twice as many. Although that also results in the factories producing half as much.

Just because you have a higher factory count doesn't mean that you don't have to deal with the low industrial capacity of small nations, since you also need a certain quantity of stuff for it be effective.
Need a manufacturing interface, Instead of already manufactured resources use raw resources (primary mineral) It would be like the production . On the left you would have each manufactured resource . In the Middle you would assign CIV factory's . On the Right raw material amounts . Then you could stock pile manufactured goods. Through research would have less waste of raw MATS producing more goods with the same amount of resources. But you would need to add coal as a raw resource.
Example:
Carbon-Steel 1 civ factory 4 units Iron ore
2 units coal (fuel source)
= 2 Manufactured Carbon Steel
Aluminum 1 civ factory 4 units Bauxite ore
1 unit coal (fuel source)
= 1 manufactured aluminum
Stainless-Steel 1 Civ Factory 4 units of chromium
2 units coal (fuel source)
= 1 manufactured Stainless-Steel
Tires 1 Civ Factory 2 units rubber
1 unit synthetic oil (made from Coal)
= 1 manufactured Tire

synthetic oil (Fuel) 1 refinery 6 units of coal
= 1 unit synthetic oil (synthetic Oil used in Civ manufacturing and Infantry Trucks)

Diesel 1 refinery 1 Barrel of oil (42-gallon oil barrel was officially adopted in 1866.)(1 unit of oil on the map represents 100 barrels)
= 12 gallons of Diesel (Used in Ships, Infantry Trucks and Tanks)

More factory's or refinery's you add more you can make. Research also​
 
Last edited:

GUmby_Aaron

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So scout planes act like radar stations that can be shot down? I don't see them being that useful unless you are pushing deep into occupied areas where your radar stations back in your core states don't cover (or very early game when you don't have radars installed yet). Maybe if you had a CV variant for scout planes than it would be nice since you could go spy on nations far from your borders/air bases them, plane would be useful mid to end game that way.
 

dexilious

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i quite like the scout plane idea, and i've been thoroughly enjoying learning the new iberian focus trees and the spy mechanics...but i also kinda understand the argument against the need to research and dedicate factories to scout planes

so could the ship designer not be (finally!) applied to planes?

instead of researching dedicated scout planes, we research (at lower expense) a recon module, and to create a scout plane we can use an existing fighter (or bomber, or naval) hull and outfit with said recon module (which would presumably prevent the addition of weaponry)...although in typing this i can see even this idea *still* requires dedicated researching and production of spy plane equipment ^_^

but would the ability of simply using an already existing plane tech (since everyone will have at least basic fighter tech) over needing to researching a new tech be more desirable?

...perhaps someone more knowledgeable in history can confirm whether dedicated scout planes were specifically developed in real life leading up to and during the war, or were the first scout planes simply modified versions of existing plane designs?
 

Hoi Neuling

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If I remember me correctly you are right, there were some Tactical Bombers (Junkers for example which get a high altitude Scout) and some Fighters (like the Spitfire or Hurricane which get some Recon / Scout-Variants.

and not to forget the best Seaplane-Scouts PBY Catalyna.

But we all should not forget that we had Standard-Variants like the Fieseler Storch and such which were normal Planes and not upgraded Fighter-Variant.