• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

HoI4 Dev Diary - Poland Focus Tree Rework Part 2/2

Hello folks and welcome back to the Poland dev-diary extravaganza! This week, I am going to continue covering the changes coming to Poland in 1.11 Barbarossa and the unannounced DLC.Today we’ll be covering the DLC content.
poland_big_picture.png

So, I’m going to start here with something a bunch of you predicted last week; you can indeed play as the Peasants’ Strike! A Poland with ambitions to restore democracy or embrace the communist revolution must first build an organized peasant militia from the rabble of disorganized farmers!
organize_peasant_strike.png

No matter how many or few states join you in the strike, the rebellious state will be in a delicate balancing act between democrats and socialists. Your first step towards revolution is to sway the Front Morges to take up the peasant’s cause, the Morges being an alliance of political parties supported by a select few Polish generals including Sikorski.
peasant_strike_buildup.png

Each focus you do in this initial block will add 5 support to either communism or democracy, with a total of 50% or more being needed for one to assert dominance over the other and take control of the government.
peasant_strike_claim_states.png

Similar to the Spanish Civil War, the Peasants’ Strike will be on a tight schedule, taking up to a year before the revolution happens. Poland will at first be able to add agricultural states to the strike, but by expanding the strike to factory workers, Poland will also be able to bring states from Poland’s industrial heartland into the revolution.
peasant_sympathiser.png

Along with contesting for popular support, gaining military support will be vital for the movement. Using decisions, certain field marshals and generals will be swayed to your cause and gain the “Peasant Sympathiser” trait, ensuring that they will join your side when the war begins.
peasant_strike_war.png

Poland will begin with socialist politician Stanisław Mikołajczyk as country leader, but those who wish to see the return of Wincenty Witos will be able to bring him back to leadership via event.
peasant_strike_victory.png

Once the civil war is won, Poland will be in a vulnerable state. Recuperating manpower and resources after a civil war will place Poland in a precarious position, so some concessions and outreach for foreign assistance may be needed.
communist_soviet.png


A communist Poland will have two options: they may be bold and elect an anti-Stalinist candidate as Chairman, or they may elect the Soviet-aligned Władysław Gomułka. However, aligning with the Soviets will come at the cost of ceding Eastern Poland, but will unlock a few focuses for dealing with the USSR.

poland_morges_pact.png


With democracy, Poland may take advantage of the Front Morges’ ambitions for closer relations with the French and create the Morges Pact, a sort-of Poland-led Little Entente. Going down this route will allow Poland access to the Between the Seas branch we talked about last week.

communist_anticap.png


Anti-Soviet communists will be able to denounce both Capitalism and Fascism, diplomatically isolating this people’s republic, but allowing for new expansion options and military bonuses against the empires of this world. In doing so, they will gain a powerful attack and defence bonus against major powers.
1619011403051.png


Both democrats and anti-Soviet communists will also be able to declare the destruction of fascism a greater cause than the spread of socialism and align themselves with the British Empire. Doing so will allow Poland to renew her interests in colonialism and attempt to purchase colonies from Allied powers. By officially recognising the Maritime and Colonial League, Poland can purchase Madagascar, Palestine, and more. If any of your purchases are successful, Poland will have somewhere to build their forces in exile, should the front back home fail.

communist_commonwealth.png


No matter which option you pick, either conquering or building alliances with the Baltic States will allow you to create a new kind of Commonwealth: the Commonwealth of Socialist Republics.

regency_branch.png


Moving on to the next branch, we have the Regency Council: Poland’s attempt to “restore” the monarchy. The Act of the Fifth of November was the promise of the Central Powers to release a Kingdom of Poland from the occupied territories of the Russian Empire, but the Regency Council of the newly formed Kingdom of Poland failed to crown a King before Józef Piłsudski declared the Second Polish Republic.

regency_branch_kingdom_poland.png


With the Regency Council assembled, Poland will be able to choose from one of three claimants, each with their own complete political path. There were countless claimants and candidates for the Polish throne so it was impossible for me to make content for them all, so we have: The Hohenzollern, The Commonwealth Claimant, and the Cossack-King to choose from!

poland_lithuania.png


The Commonwealth Claimant is perhaps the most obvious: Poland’s preferred candidate for King was Friedrich Christian. Christian was preferred due to Poland’s long connection with the houses of Saxony, and with a claimant so supported by the Poles, you are able to claim the throne of Lithuania without the need for warfare.

plc_decisions.png


Through decisions, Poland can trend monarchist sentiment up in Lithuania, and when it reaches high enough, they may either enter a civil war or peacefully take over the government. When either case has happened, Poland can annex the Lithuanian Kingdom and begin integrating the industries of their two nations and preparing for war with the Soviets and Germans: restoring the old borders of the Commonwealth and then some!

king_michael.png


Poland and Romania enjoyed close relations at the start of HoI’s timeframe, and with the throne of Poland empty, Poland may throw herself into the complex mess of Romanian politics by electing a Romanian King.

poland_romania.png


With King Michael on the throne of Poland, the Kingdoms will be able to unite under the right circumstances. Either by Polish interference or by Romania completing “King Michael’s Coup”, Romania and Poland will be united, bringing their armies together and becoming a powerful wall between the Axis and the Comintern.

poland_romania_tree.png


This Intermarium nation may seek Balkan Domination and a restoration of Poland-Hungary, or (as with the Commonwealth) it may seek to maintain its alignment with the Allies.

Finally, we have the most unlikely candidate for the throne: Pavel Bermondt-Avalov.
poland_pavel.png

A warlord, a cossack, and a Georgian Prince, Pavel led an interesting life of conquest and warfare. In the interwar period, Pavel and his Bermontian host invaded Lithuania and Latvia for reasons historians are still unsure of, but his ambition for Baltic domination makes him the ideal candidate for militarizing the Polish state into action and dominating the Baltics and Czechoslovakia.
poland_pavel_path.png

When done conquering the Baltics, Pavel will be able to either turn his militarized Polish Kingdom against the Germans and asser Poland’s claims in Silesia and Pomerania or, as a National Socialist, Pavel may wish to seek alignment with the Germans, which brings us on to the fascist branch.
poland_fascist_start.png

Poland was home to a multitude of fascist and nationalist movements: the most notable of which are the Endecja (or National Democracy) and the Falanga. The Sanation historically made dealings with both of these groups, and as such, if you want either Endecja or Falanga to take control, you must collaborate with the Sanation until you are able to supplant them.

When either Endecja or Falanga have taken over the government, they will have a choice to either stand firm with Polish nationalism or make concessions to the Germans and attempt to seek an alliance.
poland_fascist_germany.png

Aligning with the Germans will not place you on equal grounds, and it is not as easy as it once was. Germany will refuse to ally with Poland unless Danzig and Poznan are surrendered and Poland becomes a German subject. Unlike Czechoslovakia though, the Poles will be able to break their shackles and tear the Reich apart from within.

With either Pavel, Piasecki, or Dmowski in control, Poland will be presented with a ladder of focuses enabling them to either gain powerful bonuses from the Germans or plot with the Underground State to overthrow their current masters.
poland_fascist_postwar.png

Going for independence will allow Poland to switch sides and stab Germany in the back, whereas remaining loyal will enable Poland to gain some cores in the USSR in a sort-of reverse Yalta Conference.
poland_falangist_path.png

However, a Falanga or Endecja that does not bow to the Germans will be able to lean into the Polish Catholic identity and form the Falangist International: a faction devoted to the perseverance of Falangist ideals.
poland_falangist_path_boost.png

Once the Spanish Civil War is done with, if either the Carlists, Nationalists, or Falangists come out on top, Poland will be able to bring them into their own faction and from there, they will be able to expand that faction to other nations where Falangism was present such as: Mexico, the Netherlands, and much of Latin America.

They will have access to decisions to boost fascism in those nations, and with a certain percentage achieved, those nations will be invited to join the Falangist International. These focuses invite multiple nations at once, so the faction can grow very large very quickly.
poland_falangist_demand_lit.png

Similar to the Sanation path, the Polish fascists must choose between allying with Lithuania or attempting to reclaim the legacy of the Commonwealth, but choose wisely. Without allying Lithuania, this Poland will be unable to progress down the Between the Seas path, severely limiting their faction’s ability to expand.

That’s about it for the political paths, so I’ll wrap this one up by talking about a feature we haven’t touched in quite some time: Governments in Exile.
poland_prepare_inevitable.png

Unlike France and the Netherlands, Poland does not by default have a vast colonial empire to which they may retreat when things fall apart back home, so Poland will be entirely reliant on the support and goodwill of their allies and the network of resistance fighters in the Polish Underground State.
poland_exile_leaders.png

In exile, the Polish government went through a number of Prime Ministers and Presidents before landing on something the Allies were satisfied with. If Poland is following a historical route and is exiled in a Democratic nation like Britain or France, they will demand the resignation of the Sanation leaders, and from there, Poland may pick from one of three new leaders, each with a unique personality enabling them to gain manpower while in exile.

poland_irena_anders.png


On top of that, they will gain access to Irena Anders as a political adviser, granting more legitimacy, stability, and exiled manpower.

poland_exile_industry.png


In the exile focus tree, Poland can gain a number of offmap factories and dockyards, and bonuses to their ace generation and an increase in special forces cap. Poland will never muster a major army while exiled, but with these bonuses, Poland will still be able to keep fighting on with a small but specialised force.

poland_exile_intelligence.png


Owners of La Resistance will gain access to a slew of agency bonuses including an increase to their spy capacity, free agency upgrades via focus, and the new Warsaw Uprising operation.

poland_exile_warsaw_uprising.png


Completing the operation will trigger the Warsaw Uprising sooner than the game mechanics usually allow. With 50% resistance or higher in Polish states, the uprising can be started, but time this well as you can only complete this operation once. A well-timed uprising can shatter the German army and leave them short on supply as they attempt Operation Barbarossa.

Poland was also vital to assisting in decrypting the enigma machine, so they also gain access to the Mastermind Codebreaker advisor: Marian Rejewski.

poland_offmap_reactor.png


The old Cyclometer and Bombe focuses have been moved into the espionage branch, but I noted that without any territory left, a bonus to atomic research was fairly useless to Poland. So, when the Atomic Research focus is done, Poland gains an offmap nuclear reactor that will give roughly one nuke per year... Try not to think too hard about it.

There were a lot of interesting alternate-history scenarios for Poland to explore and new possibilities came up during my research and implementation. Though I didn’t represent everything in game (such as the proposed Japan-Polish alliance), Poland is a treasure-trove of alternate history scenarios if only you can find a way to survive.

That’s all for this week, and that wraps up the two week Poland extravaganza!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 274
  • 181Like
  • 29Love
  • 11
  • 8
  • 7Haha
Reactions:
Oh, also. Why isn't there more anarchist nations? Like, it would be so much fun to make the world go anarch with a Spanish ally. :D Anarchist USSR or Poland from the peasant union? Hmm?

Anarchism never really broke out in support as much as it did in Catalonia so it doesn't really work, I do also like that it makes that path more unique.
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
It's hard to tell because the reactions seem to have been wiped on many of the old DDs, especially the ones that I remember having been controversial, such as formables nations with Al-Andalus.
That was also bad, and directed at the same developer. People got it into their heads that he had been paid taxpayer dollars to add al-Andalus to the game, when, in fact, he had stated quite clearly that the new formable nations were created in his spare time.

Again, people don't always visit this forum with their reading glasses and thinking caps on.

Also, is it possible that the negative reactions to this diary originate from Polish gamers, who, after much anticipation, were disappointed to find that, even with the potential of alternate history, Hearts of Iron's Poland still "cannot into space"?
 
  • 11
  • 2Like
Reactions:
The thing is - alt his, even such meme one is cery welcome, but at first all historical branches should be done and completed, not just gone over and not even mentioned (as leftist part of tree, Sikorski-Majski pact, creating Polish units on USSR, etc). Without filling out demand for historical correction alternate paths will always bring such unplesant reaction, even more if those are meme-like and fantasy as those paths, cossac King is big no no xd
 
  • 4
  • 2Like
Reactions:
That was also bad, and directed at the same developer. People got it into their heads that he had been paid taxpayer dollars to add al-Andalus to the game, when, in fact, he had stated quite clearly that the new formable nations were created in his spare time.

I'm aware, the anger I do think was too much, however it doesn't look good to be adding Al-Andalus of all things into a WW2 game when the war isn't even portrayed properly, just the optics don't look great.

Again, people don't always visit this forum with their reading glasses and thinking caps on.

Yes, but it's been almost 5 years of the game being out and progress has been slow and disappointing for post-launch support, frustration in the fan base is growing.

Also, is it possible that the negative reactions to this diary originate from Polish gamers, who, after much anticipation, were disappointed to find that, even with the potential of alternate history, Hearts of Iron's Poland still "cannot into space"?

I think it's more the baffling nonsensical paths and the ones that are logical look lacking in content, especially fresh content. There's only so many times people get excited about seeing pictures about a focus tree that is cool because its alternate history and all it does is make you get generic "annex this country" wargoal. But yeah you might have some people who want more wacky things idk.
 
  • 3Like
  • 3
Reactions:
Since most of the criticism has been pointed out by the others, i'll give a proper critique and appreciations this time.

TL-DR:

Scrap Pavel, add Karl Albrecht instead.

Turn Intermarium sub-branch into a set of decisions and add Prometheism branch instead, with options to either ally China or Japan.

Oh, also a mission set or bunch of foci for the Ukrainians and Byelorussians. Either as a sub-branch of Prometheism , or an entire branch unto itself.

Fascist Poland would never bow to the Reich

Only Saxon, Habsburg, Pilsudski's Prometheists Successors, and Liberal Democrats who can form PLC via national focus. The Communists would prefer see an Unified Baltic separate from Poland, and the Fascists would rather gives up Kresy.

Communism

I'm not well-versed in Polish Communism history (i'm Indonesian, btw), so i would not say much. But Communist PLC in any shape or form is already ASB, so just remove it, period.

At least the option to build a Communist Intermarium with the Baltics still exist, which is good. The Intermarium-related decisions should have an option to build up worker's revolutions' in other nearby Intermarium countries.

Gomulka should've lead the anti-Comintern faction, whilst Bierut should've replace him as the pro-Stalin leader. Maria should only can rise up if Trotsky has returned to the Union.

The lone-wolf communist path should have its own military-industrial sub-branch too, by the way. Hmm, it seems that the Communist military-industrial sub-branch is located in the left of the Democratic sub-branch, good then.

Since Poland did not have any colonies, Polish Communists should not have any intentions to buy any colony, unless they want to integrate it into their society (a.k.a. cored it) which the French can do. So, i hope the "Press for Liberia" can only be accessed for both Democratic branches, not the communists. "Support Colonial Worker's Strikes" focus should be moved under "Dismantle Capitalist Empires" focus.

Democratic

Easily the best part of the paid content-side of Polish rework. Good job, @Meka66!

Morges Pact has a cool implication, it can add Little Entente into the faction, also you can buy Madagascar. I hope there would be an event for Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia to invite them too if Romania accepts. Combined with the Intermarium-related decisions, more friends from them are always welcomed.

The Allies sub-branch is quite good with the options to buy historically-considered British colonies. But i hope there would be an option to keep them out of German hands, lest we see German tanks rolling down from Jerusalem to the Suez.

Restoration of PLC (the democratic way) would be a nice endgame thing if Poland manages to return from capitulation, and then fight WW3 against the Russians.

Monarchist

Oh, how do i start with this.... The beginning is quite good, but when you choose the kings, i'm disappointed that Karl Albrecht can't be a Polish King. Sure, he's a Habsburg, but at least he's a real contender like the Wettin candidate, unlike Pavel and (to lesser extent) Michael.....

So i'll only review the Wettin branch and Michael, the Pavel one can be scrapped in favor of Prometheism sub-branch that can be accessed by every ideology except communism. The German-alignment sub-branch of Prometheism can be left there, as Poland can bid its time to destroy the Soviets first before turning back to Germany if they are led by NSDAP.

Wettin

Wettin-led Monarchist PLC is really good (2nd best), appreciate it, @Meka66! Maybe you can add a foci to pressure Carol II to abdicate and let Michael to be the Romanian king, perhaps? Combined with the Intermarium branch, a Monarchist Intermarium of Poland, Austria-Hungary, and Romania can create an interesting playthrough. Especially if Kaiser Wilhelm and Vittorio Emanuele can join it too through the "Alliance with the Kaiser" and "Italian Alliance" focus.

Michael II

Instead of creating a Visegrad-lite superblock, the better choice is to make Hungary (with Southern Slovakia) and Romania as Polish (with the rest of Slovakia) puppet states (integrated puppet for TfV owners). The Baltics can be allied with the Intermarium-related decisions, so i'm satisified with that too. If you want to be a little wacky, as Friedrich can help Michael rise up in Romania, Michael can make Friedrich rule the Unified Baltic Duchy.

The bloc would be looked like this:
20210423191019_1.jpg


Fascism

If Dmowski leads Nationalist Poland, the focuses related to cooperation with Germany in the Prometheist branch should NOT be available, or change the targeted ally into Italy. He would literally gives out Kresy if it means he gained Pomerania and Silesia, or at least release them as puppets if no one forced him to, anything for his "100% Catholic and 100% Polish" vision.

If Prometheist sub-branch is to be added, Dmowski's Poland should literally gives Kresy to the Ukrainians and Byelorussians as their fellow Prometheist ally in the crusade against Russia. On the other hand, he can request assistance from the non-Soviet Russians to liberate Pomerania and Silesia from the Germans, with the same Kresy territorial concessions.

I presume the Falanga didn't share Dmowski's vision of "100% Polish and 100% Catholic" but nevertheless they are still Polish nationalists at heart, so they can't form the Commonwealth.

While both ND and ONR can complete the "State Catholicism" foci, i hope only the ONR who can promote the "Falangist International".

Polish Underground State

Most of it is alright (3rd best), except the nuke stuff. Agree with the fellow forum members, make it like Bulgaria's, a bonus that can be accessed by Polish allies.

Also, make more options for the Polish Army in the East for the communist-oriented players. So that when Polish SSR capitulates, they can still fight against Germany in the Soviet lands.

As @Meka66 already said that the normal Warsaw Uprising can't be sparked because of the lack of resistance to reach 80%, make it a decision that can be clicked to raise resistance, and finally execute the uprising when average resistance reaches 50%.
 
Last edited:
  • 15
  • 12Like
  • 2Love
  • 1
Reactions:
I myself disagreed with the offmap nuke issue, but as I said in my comment where I stated that I also stated that I thought the rest of the tree was well-done. People are ignoring the good parts of the tree and only flaming the bad parts. It's not very constructive to keep flaming and piling on heaps of complaints, when there is plenty of good stuff in the dev diary as well. This tree at the very least is miles better than the original Polish tree, which I have long considered to be by far the worst focus tree in the game. It may have a couple things I don't like in it, but to say that it's completely garbage and unredeemable is just lazy and wrong.
Maybe they shouldn't include something so god damn stupid if they want to have anything else get attention.
 
  • 12Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
however it doesn't look good to be adding Al-Andalus of all things into a WW2 game when the war isn't even portrayed properly, just the optics don't look great.
Already did my jab at Meka66 last week for not reworking Arabia formable, and added Al-Andalus instead of Tamazgha.
 
Three different monarchist paths, bizarre fantasies of a Polish nuclear program (!) and the ridiculous, ahistorical and frankly tasteless focuses based on a colonial empire.

This is real low point even for Paradox alternate history, but I have faith it's going to get worst when we see whatever ridiculous route is planned for restoring the Tsar.

Why can't any of the DLC actually focus on real historical possibilities for these nations? Why does everything have to cater to right-wing fantasists?
 
  • 19
  • 7
  • 4Like
Reactions:
@Sultan Suleiman
We are not upset because Poland is not too wacky but becuase it is
Moreover, devs shown that they not only doesn't care about history anymore (the have got polish socialism, the people's movement completely wrong, they didn't add the only possible polish king candidate) but they also copied HPoland mod almost 1:1 in Sanacja part of the tree (including idea about endorsing various wings of Sanacja and naming them like in the mod, which was done for fun because it's not historical at all).
And why would anyone want to change polish flag to The Black Madonna? Especially PSL which was mildly anti-clerical. (I'm not even talking about PSL-Revolution)
There was quite a fun on polish HoI4 groups after they called Mikołajczyk socialist (the man who literally led anti-socialist opposition after the war) and made Gomułka a stalinist (who was imprisioned for not endorsing it and being a nationalist) while ND was made into german collabolators despite them being strongly anti-nazi and democratic IRL.

There are no problems with about 40% of pops being of differend culture. There is no synthetic rubber, neither innovative industrial exploits. Instead they went for memey stuff like buying off Palestyne as a socialist government.

We only expected Paradox to do a little of historical research and apply some minor-yet-plausable paths and mechanics but instead we got The Red Flood level of wackyness.

NGL the falangist internationale made me chuckle and while it may be a fun tree to play with it doesn't seem to be right for a game that tries to be somewhat historical. I'm not talking about there should not be any alt-history but c'mon. Why would you ever add somebody like Pavel as a king of Poland? Literally the prince of Japan would be more possible and I'm not even joking. We want a high-tech espionage Polish-Japanese tree instead, with Piłsudski as a prime minister
 
Last edited:
  • 31
Reactions:
Three different monarchist paths, bizarre fantasies of a Polish nuclear program (!) and the ridiculous, ahistorical and frankly tasteless focuses based on a colonial empire.

This is real low point even for Paradox alternate history, but I have faith it's going to get worst when we see whatever ridiculous route is planned for restoring the Tsar.

Why can't any of the DLC actually focus on real historical possibilities for these nations? Why does everything have to cater to right-wing fantasists?
In HOI4 it's not that fun to stay weak and get steamrolled by stronger powers. You want to at least be an equal to have a fair fight, but the world is inherently unfair.

I tried playing Austria (not Austria-Hungary, the Republik Osterreich that will get Anschluss-ed), and even with some ridiculous buffs that I mod in myself (featuring 3x factory output and 5x research speed) I find myself overwhelmed by "minors" such as Czechoslovakia, because they have a lot more troops, in better conditions, and alliances to help

Since Poland historically died near instantly, and Paradox's oversimplified economy system means it is impossible to match the stronger economies without conquest, it's normal that all ahistorical trees where the weak survives feature a lot of conquests, which by nature is fascistic
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Some people here don't seem to realize why so many people have issues with this tree.

Ofc some people are complaining that Poland gets tree at all cuz "it dies every time".
Some will complain about nuclear reactor which, while indeed silly, is really not that big of a deal.
But then the real issue these alt-hist trees have is that they have either completely fantasy scenerios or the scenerios which are engrained in reality completely misrepresent the goals of parties in each of the path.
Not a single party represented here, maybe in exception of Sikorski and Front Morges, but even that one is wrong, has anything to do with what their goals were historically. Portraying staunch anti-communists as willing to ally with them. Portraying Panslavic nationalists as the ones who would ally Germans against Russia. Portraying political plancton as actually relevant parties just for the sake of gameplay - AND even with them it's treating them completely innaccurately (they are called falangists so they must wanted to ally falanga... no).

People use this very silly argument that "uh... it's alt-hist, just do memes". That's what mods are for. You can do whatever you want with them and for all you care you can appoint Shrek as the great commander of world alliance against faction of teletubbies. Of course I used hyperbole here but this essentially what this cossack here is. Teletubbie on Polish throne. In paid content I would expect some level of engraining in reality and not complete fantasy.

Meka here said that Poland had so many different paths to choose from, yet these which we got... are so weird. As said, Poland was very diversed politically wise with so many concepts that are just missing being cut out in favour of something that was never the case.

Honestly, I dont know. I am just disappointed. After Balkan DLC and Spanish tree I expected better, hell even last weeks dev-diary I expected better. And what we got is just... big meme tree on the level of communist Japan or civil war USA.
 
  • 26
  • 2Like
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Communism

I'm not well-versed in Polish Communism history, so i would not say much. But Communist PLC in any shape or form is already too much, just remove it, period......

Fascism

....the focuses related to cooperation with Germany in the Prometheist branch should NOT be available....
Speaking from a plausibility standpoint, neither communism nor fascism had any chance of coming to power without being puppeted by a foreign power. Zilch, nada, none.

If you wanted the most realistic depiction of communist Poland, it'd be as a Soviet puppet state. Even in the most fanciful scenario where Poland manages to internally succeed in a coup and some communist regime comes to power, Papa Stalin (or Leon Trotsky in the case of hoi4 alt-history) is going to come knocking on the door demanding obedience to Moscow. Assuming the organization was somehow not already puppeted internally (where else do you get the material support to launch such a fanciful coup anyways?), there would be war with the USSR if they didn't accept.

Under no circumstances is the USSR or a Fascist Germany going to tolerate full Polish independence without huge territorial concessions, internal government control, and diplomatic oversight.
-------------------------------------------------

When I first set out to make Historical Poland (the R56 Poland as most call it these days), one of the most fundamental motivations was to try and overcome the real reason that most people flipped communism or fascist in the base game. Everyone was simply just flipping fascism/commie to get Germany or the USSR in their faction. Then you as the minor nation declare a bunch of wars and sit back and watch as Germany or the USSR kill everything for you as you feel smug and watch your own country expand its borders for no risk at all. I tried to represent the fact that being German or Soviet aligned was going to result in serious diplomatic obstacles and that you're basically going to end up as a rump puppet state, not a winner coming out of WW2 by going this route.

I always thought that Poland in HPL was significantly stronger than vanilla united and ready, but I got constant moaning from lots of people saying that the game was so hard because they couldn't use the USSR or Germany to bludgeon everyone to death anymore. Are we ever going to address the fact that cooperation with Germany or the USSR would be a Faustian bargain for a lot of countries? It should feel more like a hollow victory with harsh consequences in my opinion.

If we're going for an authentic feeling, whatever route you take in a Polish play-through should feel like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
Last edited:
  • 14Like
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2
Reactions:
Speaking from a plausibility standpoint, neither had any chance of coming to power without being puppeted by a foreign power. Zilch, nada, none.

Under no circumstances is the USSR or a Fascist Germany going to tolerate full Polish independence without huge territorial concessions, internal government control, and diplomatic oversight.
-------------------------------------------------

If we're going for an authetentic feeling, whatever route you take in a Polish play-through should feel like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Wait, about Dmowski's Poland, i know that his influence is not as good as Pilsudski, but IIRC ND-led Poland isn't too far fetched as the Communist one, right?

Also, there is no major political figure that i can recall as a Nazi collaborationist, even Dmowski would rather eat his shoes than letting Silesia and Pomerania under German jackboot.....
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Wait, about Dmowski's Poland, i know that his influence is not as good as Pilsudski, but IIRC ND-led Poland isn't too far fetched as the Communist one, right?
Fascism isn't a good label for the Endecja movement. But Endecja would be the biggest political force outside of Sanacja--definitely worthy of being represented at least. That said, despite their size, they would face an uphill battle as other political forces would be in a coalition against them, and they faced repression from the Sanacja government (SN coming to power would require a narrative of Sanacja to be willing to ease up a bit).

From a diplomatic standpoint, they'd be aligned with the Allies still where possible. France and the UK would moan about revanchism and minority rights, but the Soviets and Germany are too big a threat to just stick to strict principles. While less willing to provide aid, political pragmatism would still dominate. As alternative routes, SN would have better potential to cooperate with Italy and Russia who they saw as potential candidates for some cooperation.

As for internal government policy, things get more complicated. The Endecja movement was split into two camps. An older generation believed that the Nationalist program should be enacted through democratic means and that contrasting themselves to what they saw as an authoritarian Sanacja government was an important principle. But overtime, as SN got sidelined, a more radical generation of activists came to prominence demanding that the nationalist camp take radical action to try to come to power. The older generation would be democratic, the younger would probably be represented as neutral (maybe transitioning back to democratic after a few years of absolute rule themselves) if we went by internal policy alone.
 
  • 7
  • 3
Reactions:
Il be honest i thought the dev diary from last week was decent, room for improvement but overall decent compared to other vanilla trees

but what the hell? a random cossack nazi who never even set foot in poland? wtf were you guys thinking? you chose this random over a actual candidate like Karol Olbracht von habsburg, this is genuinely the most dissapointing alternate history path ive seen

not to mention the stupidity that Polish nationalists have the option to collaborate with Germany
 
  • 13
  • 3Like
Reactions:
Well after the last few AMAZING dev diaries...This one brings us back to reality. This DLC will ruin the game more than it improves it. So disappointed.
I do not share your feelings, I believe these two devs that you have indicated have returned the lost illusion to the community and I sincerely believe it is a good way to recover hyppe to the people of this game despite the problems that may arise, bugs and minor failures that are inevitable
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions: