HOI4 Dev Diary - Patch 1.3.3 Update #1

HOI4 Dev Diary - Patch 1.3.3 Update #1

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Hi everyone! Sorry about the late diary as we had to scramble for some alternative content due to originally planned authors being cut off by an enemy encirclement and suffering terrible attrition (a.k.a being sick). That means that instead of talking about optimization and AI we will be focusing on balance stuff we have been working on for the 1.3.3 patch which is nearing completion.

Industry - Infrastructure effects
Infrastructure will now affect the cost of building factories in a state. At the highest level of infrastructure, the cost for each factory is the same as before, with a few minor cost reductions for readability. In less developed states with lower levels of infrastructure building factories is more costly. The bonus to build in high infrastructure states is shown in the construction map mode.
Pasted image at 2017_02_08 03_15 PM.png

The reason for this change is twofold. We wanted to ensure that some states are more valuable than others as they will naturally become centers of industrialization. The other reason is to slow down the growth of industry in the mid to late game, which we felt was too excessive (we have also worked with tech progression here). Finally we felt that the value of infrastructure and infrastructure giving national focuses was too low and this will change this up quite a bit!

Industry - Efficiency Changes
The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

This is a famous joke in software development that is attributed to Tom Cargill of Bell Labs. There’s a certain truth to this and it applies to more areas than programming. Whenever you start something new, initial progress is usually pretty quick but as as you keep working on it, each incremental improvement becomes harder and harder.

In Hearts of Iron IV, production efficiency used to have linear growth. We have changed this so that initial production efficiency growth is relatively fast, but it slows down as the lines become more efficient.

Pasted image at 2017_02_08 03_16 PM.png

In this graph you can see the difference between the old and new implementation. The old implementation steadily grows in efficiency until it reaches the cap. With the new system, initial efficiency growth is faster, but it takes much longer to reach maximum. This is affected by technology, meaning that modifiers to efficiency growth speed, cap and base all affect efficiency growth.

The main benefit of this change is that high efficiency and efficiency retention has a lot higher value now and you need to think harder whether to change out a production line or not.

World Tension - new threat rules
Justifying a war used to only account for the cost of the states you selected for the wargoal. This led to a situation where it was too efficient to just claim a single state per war justification in order to keep world tension down. War justifications now accounts for the size of the country you are justifying a war against. This has the effect that justifying a war against a major nation, something that would be seen as a very aggressive move, will therefore result in a larger amount of world tension.

Justifying against multiple countries has also become a more costly affair, with political power cost going up per justification and war the country is already involved in. This should help with multiple justifications draining political power from guaranteeing nations and make player think a little before they start drawing up the new proposed borders.

When a country is at war the tension limit for them joining a faction is lowered. This allows nations to intervene in early wars through other means than guarantees.

Capitulation changes
Previously you would only get access to a country’s stockpile of equipment when they surrendered. We felt this was too restrictive and a but unrealistic, so there is now a new mechanic where you get access to a percentage of a nation’s equipment when they capitulate. It also gives you a neat breakdown of the most common equipment and detailed count of the rest
prod.jpg


Next week we will be talking about AI, optimization and other things, so see you then!

Don't forget to tune in at 16:00CET on www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive today where me and Daniel will be starting a campaign of Kaiserreich in World War Wednesday!
 
Last edited:

that-guy-is-it

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Very happy about the infrastructure-industry relationship. Personally, I never touched infrastructure as I felt it was more efficient to increase IC instead, so I am glad to see there is finally a reason to do that.
 

Uberbrandon

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I like the tweaks geared towards making things 'more realistic.' Looking forward to hearing about AI next week!
 

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Industry - Infrastructure effects
Infrastructure will now affect the cost of building factories in a state. At the highest level of infrastructure, the cost for each factory is the same as before, with a few minor cost reductions for readability. In less developed states with lower levels of infrastructure building factories is more costly. The bonus to build in high infrastructure states is shown in the construction map mode.
View attachment 239776
The reason for this change is twofold. We wanted to ensure that some states are more valuable than others as they will naturally become centers of industrialization. The other reason is to slow down the growth of industry in the mid to late game, which we felt was too excessive (we have also worked with tech progression here). Finally we felt that the value of infrastructure and infrastructure giving national focuses was too low and this will change this up quite a bit!
!
You don't mention if there is some way of seeing the infrastructure and increased cost when placing factories, this would be a sanity saver for sure. :D

Edit: Oh its in the screenshot, or at least im guessing that is what the percentage values are, correct?
 

Aldahen

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Nice! Let me congratulate you on excellent design choices!

Infrastructure will now affect the cost of building factories in a state.
-> some states are more valuable than others
-> slow down the growth of industry in the mid to late game
-> the value of infrastructure and infrastructure giving national focuses was too low
Very good to give more weight to infrastructure. But after this change, I wonder is it too fast to increase the infrastructure levels? Maybe you could consider similar approach as fortifications, so that each level costs more than the last?

We have changed this so that initial production efficiency growth is relatively fast, but it slows down as the lines become more efficient.
-> The main benefit of this change is that high efficiency and efficiency retention has a lot higher value now and you need to think harder whether to change out a production line or not.
Excellent! Until now it was quite common to change as soon as you got new tech. Now the decision becomes harder.
But one thing what has always bugged me is that, if you add factories to your line, you loose quite much efficiency. So much that it makes little sense to do it. For optimizations sake it feels like one would be better of in starting a completely new line. (which of course makes your production screen a big mess to manage). It will be even more pronounced after this change, so could you have a look and reconsider how to efficency drops after adding a factory to an existing line?

Justifying a war used to only account for the cost of the states you selected for the wargoal. This led to a situation where it was too efficient to just claim a single state per war justification in order to keep world tension down. War justifications now accounts for the size of the country you are justifying a war against.
Brilliant! It really has very little function that you needed to select one (or more) provinces to justify a wargoal, when you could still conquer and annex everything (or different) after the war.
This felt like a feature carrying over from other PDX games. Now the cheap war justification is over and WC becomes harder. Very good.

Previously you would only get access to a country’s stockpile of equipment when they surrendered. We felt this was too restrictive and a but unrealistic, so there is now a new mechanic where you get access to a percentage of a nation’s equipment when they capitulate. It also gives you a neat breakdown of the most common equipment and detailed count of the rest
Realistic change I suppose. And nice to get a breakdown for the spoils of war. I'd see this also a nice mechanic for countries with poor industry. You could play the locust style! Conquer to get equipment and keep on going. (well... I suppose you get some factories too and start to make your own). Maybe who is getting the equipment of the losing country could be one choice to be made in the peace conference?
 
Last edited:

HenkieDePost

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Nice. I like pretty much all of these announced changes, especially because this now means that it is 1: more difficult for smaller nations to build tonnes of equipment, and 2: you have to think before switching lines because the efficiency loss hits you harder. Both make it so that managing production lines becomes a bigger aspect of the game, which is nice because the production line is in my opinion maybe the best new feature of HoI IV.

I also have a suggestion about capturing equipment. Although I do really like the system proposed in the dev-diary (no-one cares that they get some equipment after the end of WWII, so this is way better), I think it will also be a good addition to be able to capture equipment through encirclements. In order to stop this from being overpowered I say that most equipment will be destroyed, but you atleast get a few of the captured tanks and rifles. This not only makes encircling more powerful but also is more realistic in my opinion. If you encircle 600-1000 tanks it only seems logical that atleast some survive in relatively good shape, right? Anyway, keep up the good work.
 

CaribbeanBlues

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This should make factory building a bit more interesting. Now as the USSR you may not want to put all your industry in Siberia away from the Germans since that will slow down your industrialization.
The US may now become even more of an industrial monster! That is definitely needed, as now due to the equipment seizing changes, Germany can seize quite a bit of equipment from France and the Benelux. (And now maybe even a bit more from the Czechoslovaks!)
All in all, I'm really happy for these changes. It should also give some minor nations with large amounts of potential a bit of a nerf due to the infrastructure changes.
 

PsychoLold

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What determines the percentage of seized equipment? Also, if I understand it correctly, the efficiency growth does not depend on the cap. So for the first 100 days it does not matter if the cap is at 50 or 75%, right?
 

Kliwarrior

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Can you give is the formula behind the new efficiency growth?
Does this change affect the efficiency growth and retention in concentrated/dispersed factories?

Edit: my best guess is this...

Cattura.JPG
 
Last edited:

Nyvis

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Does the justify thing changes the fact that there is never really a good reason to justify conquest for more than one state (as you can always do whatever you want in the peace conference)?
 

Pallidum

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What determines the percentage of seized equipment? Also, if I understand it correctly, the efficiency growth does not depend on the cap. So for the first 100 days it does not matter if the cap is at 50 or 75%, right?
The growth does depend on the cap. Without any other factors influencing the growth, the time to reach max efficiency is roughly the same for different efficiency caps.
 

MasterAckrovan

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Excellent stuff guys, imo these are all great changes! :) will the bonuses that infrastructure gives to factory construction be moddable?

Also also, perhaps consider making certain state categories like rural or small town unable to reach maxed our infrastructure, if this isn't sufficient enough to make industrialization in the mid-late game harder. Just a thought :)
 

BurdenedWarrior

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looking good! Nice to see some mechanic tweeks! Looking forward towards Oak and company :p
 

King-Salomon

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But one thing what has always bugged me is that, if you add factories to your line, you loose quite much efficiency. So much that it makes little sense to do it. For optimizations sake it feels like one would be better of in starting a completely new line. (which of course makes your production screen a big mess to manage). It will be even more pronounced after this change, so could you have a look and reconsider how to efficency drops after adding a factory to an existing line?
Exactly my worry too - if the grow rate is for EVERY single factory.. ok.. but if it goes for the production line there would be a problem as it really would be a big difference if you add a factory or start a new line instead (in the first days, better to add, soon after better to start a new line - which would result in in extrema for 1 production line for each single factory to get the most out of it :(

EDIT: but I am very happy about the other changes, thanks guys :D
 

Riekopo

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Looks very good! One idea for the capitulation mechanic is you should get the enemy's equipment if they are destroyed in a pocket and surrender.

The game already allows countries to use other countries' equipment, so this would be a neat little change and would help immersion.
 
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