HOI4 - Dev Diary - June 17th - Patch 1.1 "Red Ball Express"

[Doctoxic]

Looking forward to the patch, but a few things I hope also make it in:

There's already a mod out which should be integrated wholesale into the patch. It addresses:

1. AI, aside from Germany, not researching new tanks or airplanes;
2. AI, aside from Germany, not manufacturing medium or heavy tanks;
3. AI using awful division templates;
4. AI spamming duplicate templates, and never upgrading existing templates, so it's stuck using shoddy 1936 designs throughout the game;
5. AI using ridiculous 300-plane wings, when the optimum wing size is 100, and not having enough wings to properly cover its fronts;
6. A lot of other bugs that showed up after a handful of observer games.

Also stuff that can't be fixed by mods and (again) really needs to be fixed because it's basically gamebreaking:

1. Default plane wing setting should turn off 'fight to the death' and should set missions only for daytime. This will basically eliminate the massive plane losses, and will also be more historical since historically night combat (aside from bombing) was very rare.
   
2. AI is hardcoded to declare war the moment it has a claim, regardless of how it's doing in ongoing wars or whether it's able to even reach the wargoal. For example, Germany declaring war on half of South America while the Red Army is at the gates of Berlin.
   
3. AI is hardcoded to allow anyone to join a faction. For example, USSR declares on Finland. Finland joins Allies. Britain is sucked into a war against the USSR while it's badly losing against Germany (which spans from occupied Poland to Portugal) and Japan (which has occupied all of China and is hammering India). The faction leader should simply compare the strength of the applicant against the strength of the new enemies the applicant will draw into the war. For example, Germany declares on Yugoslavia. Yugo applies to Allies. Yugo brings to Allies some divisions, but no new enemies, and is accepted into Allies faction. USSR declares on Finland. Finland applies to Allies. Finland brings to Allies some divisions, but also a giant new enemy, and is declined entry because a war against both Axis and USSR is stupid.
   
4. AI is hardcoded to join its 'ideological' faction regardless of whether it's losing. In the above-referenced game, Spain joined Allies even while Allies were losing badly against Axis, just because Spain and Allies were both 'democratic.' Again, AI should weigh the cost of joining a faction.
5. AI will relentlessly try to pursue focus wargoals even when those wargoals are impossible. For example, if Czechoslovakia conquers Austria, Germany will spend the rest of the game trying to get Anschluss regardless of circumstances.

i have been using the mod and it seems to be doing a good job - i was a little disappointed that @podcat seemed to judge it by the comments rather than having a quick peek at the code to judge for himself

 

[Mann42]

Looks like a good start.

But the game will still frustrate me if you guys don't fix the thing where the game automatically un-pauses when I close a pop-up. Truly awful UX.

 

[Doctoxic]

But the game will still frustrate me if you guys don't fix the thing where the game automatically un-pauses when I close a pop-up. Truly awful UX.

this, so much this, annoying as hell

 

[SDAirborne173]

i have been using the mod and it seems to be doing a good job - i was a little disappointed that @podcat seemed to judge it by the comments rather than having a quick peek at the code to judge for himself

It's okay for doing what it says it does, but strategic AI is still awful (Italy redeploying dozens of divisions to east Africa, not defending it coasts, Germany getting stuck in the Lowlands/France, charging the Maginot, declaring on Switzerland, etc.). The mod creator even had to make the Denmark and Norway focuses only fire after the Germany AI had successfully made France capitulate because it had such a difficult time managing the two fronts at once (whereas historically the Norwegian campaign and the Danish capitulation happened before or concurrent with the French campaign).

So, yes, it makes the AI produce heavy/medium armor. But it still doesn't solve the massive, glaring AI problems that are so obvious that they definitely should have been found prior to release. There's really no excuse for a lot of them (yes, I know that's going to make a lot of you fanboy apologists angry. Get over it).

 

[Invader_Canuck]

@podcat will the AI default casualty tolerance for air missions be changed from no retreat?

 

[Homer2101]

i have been using the mod and it seems to be doing a good job - i was a little disappointed that @podcat seemed to judge it by the comments rather than having a quick peek at the code to judge for himself

So long as the changes get made, I'll be happy. If Podcat isn't part of the team working on the AI, best he can do is pass on the information to the programmers and scripters and let them handle it.

Unfortunately, a lot of the core AI stuff (attacking into mountains, random naval invasions, psychotic war declarations) can't easily be fixed by modders, and I'm hoping Paradox doesn't pull a Bethesda and properly improves the AI.

 

[MDDonnergott]

PLEASE FIX! https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-and-coup-system-broken.947697/#post-21413462

 

[Cromwell18]

Will you add more portraits? (say yes! say yes! say yes!)

 

[alanschu]

Yeah, that would make a great 4th option for the AI management. Turn off completely.

Don't get me wrong, I love the way the AI can help avoid a lot of micro, but there are specialized situations where I might want total control.

Just don't activate that part of the battleplan (shift-click lets you specify elements that you want to be enacted upon) should help with that.

 

[DarthMocha]

If I am reading this correctly and from game play that Naval Bombers do not currently attack troop transports or convoys?....

 

[DaveyDave]

AI needs to stop using strat movement in provinces next to enemy.

 

[fabius]

AI needs to stop using strat movement in provinces next to enemy.

And pathfinding through enemy provinces when a manual movement order is given within own borders

 

[Daser von Wulf]

nice

 

[Otto_Von_Mack]

This patch sounds great! Looking forward to see how the "tweaks" play out.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

Please don't forget to make the AI research better equipment and to make it produce some more armor!

 

[Riktol]

@@podcat @@SteelVolt - Could we have button that would allow us to prevent our divisions on the front line to strategically redeployed? Because often you'll see divisions shuffled across the front line, during war and engagements with enemy, with divisions moving along the lines and getting only fraction of ORG because, strategic redeployement? It is often the problem when you have weaker forces on a front line, because half your units will end up with practically no ORG. (Or if you don't babysit them enough, AI will manage to get 10 divisions from 24 to get Overrun, even though sitting behind major river crossing while being dig in)

I think that might be something worth looking at. But as a first quick solution to make it less of a problem I have increased the minimum size of the path for the SR to activate (there is also a define added for this, so it can be modded to be even larger.)

The issue with only increasing the minimum path size for the SR is that on a large front (eg Soviet Vs Germany) divisions from one end of the line might be used to reinforce the other side, leading to the same issue. If it is quicker to SR a division from a 'stable' province to one at risk than move it manually it won't improve the situation, SR will still be used to move troops directly to the front.
I remember something being said in a dev diary about unit 'stickyness' so they wouldn't move too far from their current position, if this is a working feature (I haven't noticed it myself) maybe this could help with the issue by changing the stickyness depending on whether or not the move will use SR.

Isnt better solution to add rule for AI so no strat redeploy if unit is or will end up 1(2) province or closer to enemy.

I assume you mean if the unit ends its move within 1 or 2 provinces of the enemy? This would probably stop the AI using SR completely unless there were provinces with no enemy divisions in them.
I think the solution is to break the move in 2 parts, an initial strategic redeployment to get it to the general area, then a normal move in to combat/defensive line.
For a breakthrough scenario you could have the AI to draw a fallback line and assign troops to it, SR to get the troops to the fallback and have them move in normally into contact with the breakthrough. That sounds pretty complicated to get to work, you need to balance the needs of the line as a whole vs the need to close the pocket, you need to not make it happen every time you loose a single province...
A little thought exercise for over the holidays perhaps?

 

[Vox Deus]

This path we have taken a look at some things in the AI where relatively small effort would give a rather big payoff. A lot of this focus was around mistakes Germany was making, such as building too many dock yards and thus lagging behind in the production of military factories. Another thing we discovered that Germany did was to start using the Austrian division designs after the Anschluss, due to looking at the latest date edited. Both of these have been taken care of, but we have also looked at how to make them not rush the maginot line without making large changes that could break other cases.

Is there any chance that German AI, or AI in general, can be programmed to consider the current wars it is fighting before it declares more (possibly disastrous) wars? I realize this may be related to the structure of the Focus trees, and this in turn may follow a more or less historical path (ie, war with USSR in 1941, no matter what), but it seems like even the historical AI should be able to realize that invading Yugoslavia, Greece, Norway, and Switzerland while it is still trying to make its way through Belgium is a bad idea, regardless of how Germany acted historically.

I also realize that historically, Japan and Germany both declared wars that arguably weren't a good idea given their already stretched position (Pearl Harbor and Barbarossa, respectively), but it seems like the AI should at least be stable on one front before opening a new one. Even Japan and Germany weren't daft enough to start a new war while they were being beaten by their current foes.

On a related note, can AI consider more carefully the wisdom of accepting minors who are involved in a hot war with an otherwise neutral faction or power into their faction mid war? I've seen quite a bit of the Allies going to war with the Comintern over Finland or the Baltics when they are not yet even making landings in German occupied Europe.

 

[RippS]

***Please Please Please address the AI inability to create division templates in 1.1 patch. Please***

I see you mentioned the problem with Germany adopting Austrian templates, but the problem is *much* more pervasive than that. I'm in 1941 in my current playthru as Germany, and *none* of the AI nations adds artillery to its infantry. This is a huge problem. All nations are using the basic 3x3 infantry templates. No support. Nothing. These types of divisions are nothing more than cannon fodder. And yet, major power or minor power, that's all I see, across the world.

I'd be hugely in favor of giving the AI *basic templates* that it can use, rather than 'develop' on its own (if that's what it's doing). Anything to ensure that AI builds infantry divisions with artillery and other necessary support (AT, etc) -- even if it's only for the major powers. The AI seems not to be able to use the division design mechanic. Again, I believe this is a huge problem that needs to be prioritized for the upcoming patch.

YES YES YES! The game is extremely boring in the late game now. Invading the US as Japan in 1945 and the US is still building 1936 fighters and the first level of artillery!!!!

 

[Homer2101]

YES YES YES! The game is extremely boring in the late game now. Invading the US as Japan in 1945 and the US is still building 1936 fighters and the first level of artillery!!!!

Try this mod:

>Unapproved Link removed<

It fixes a lot of rather questionable AI programming done by Paradox. I've been running it and it makes a huge difference. Germany deploys armor by 1939, countries have actual fighters, and their modernized divisions require more than just two SPG battalions. Played as France, and Germany successfully assaulted the Maginot Line with heavy tank divisions, for example. desperately to be fixed, but it's a lot better than the vanilla game.

 

[giovdb]

One issue that I hope to see fixed very soon, is that the AI does NOT prepare for a war before they declare. Here is some examples that I experienced that make absolutely no sense:

-I was playing as Germany and my friend as Italy. In 1939, before Danzig or War, Japan declared war on the USA for no reason. It did not attack any fleets or make any attempt for the US islands. It pretty much just waited to get invaded by the US. The only positive thing here is that it made the game a bit more challenging, as by November 1939 we had already capitulated Poland, France, and the UK (UK AI should respond better to air and naval invasions; they literally do nothing to stop or prevent them).

-On my current game as USA, Germany declared war on Norway and never attempted to invade. So why declare war? Also, in 1940, Germany was getting invaded through Brittany area, Italy lost Rome to UK, and much of the Northern Italy area was invaded by France and Australia (Yes, you read that right). Meanwhile Germany does not seem to be helping them. Instead, they declare war on Finland and Bulgaria for no reason, and don't even attack them.

-On my previous game as Germany, Japan was struggling against China (US troops were helping). I was at war with Soviet Union, but Japan was not. The US sent a huge army in Russian territory bordering Manchuria, but could not invade from there as the the Soviets were in peace with Japan. For some reason, even though Japan was already overwhelmed, it kept requesting to join my war against the Soviet Union. WHY?? They were losing their current war, were outnumbered in the Russian front, AND they wanted to join that war? Makes no sense. AI should be reluctant to join wars if they are currently losing ground in another. They should also not want to join a war if the enemy has a stronger presence in that front.

-Also, I've never seen AI Japan invade the East Indies or Borneo... Please change the AI so it makes that Japan's number 1 priority.