HoI4 Dev Diary - God Save the King: British Focus Tree Rework

HoI4 Dev Diary - God Save the King: British Focus Tree Rework

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Stug_Life

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I read it the same day you wrote it, and I have also rated it helpful (though it would seem that the forums logged me out or otherwise bugged when I tried to do so, because I now see it does not show I rated it at all - that's a mistake I apologize for). I haven't responded to it in more detail yet because I haven't yet had the time to see which things can/should be implemented, in which forms, and to which lengths.

In general you can assume I read everything I get pinged on, and if I don't reply it's most likely because I either don't agree with it, I haven't had time to formulate a plan of implementation yet, or I'm currently working on something else and plan to take a more in-depth look again when I'm once again working on the subject the comment/suggestion pertains to. I prefer to make written replies when I know I can commit to something. Helpful/agree/respectful disagree ratings should show I'm aware of something until I am able to make such a reply.

In general, though, it's a useful list which I intend to use when I make another update/polish pass on the UK tree. However, as above, I can't yet say which things will be adjusted or in which ways they will be adjusted. Thanks for taking the time to write it up, though :)

And no, though playable, the tree isn't finished yet. There is a reason no release date has been announced, yet :)
This.. This is quality content :)
 

HolyAmericanEmpire

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@Bratyn

I know I am posting this very late and I don't expect you to see it haha, but I just wanted to let you know, if you didn't catch it already, the Influence and Coerce focuses in the current UK tree have an issue where they add democratic support, even if the UK is not democratic.

Balancing Suggestions
I also saw that you plan to pass over the tree again for balancing purposes, but to agree with some other comments
-The Singapore and Hong Kong focuses (and the two that follow them) could use either a large buff, or a decrease in time to complete the focuses.
-"Balkan Strategy" is pretty useless
-"Protect Suez", "Fortify Malta", and "Mediterranean Bastion" should be 35 day focuses. Just adding a small amount of forts over 70 days is boring, under powered, and a waste of time
-The sanctioning/embargo focuses could be a little more attractive, but I could see why they wouldn't change if you feel that they are fine as they are.
-"The Shadow Scheme" could add a military factory or two (or something else), I don't believe many players spend a lot of time converting factories (I could be wrong about that!)
-"Industrial Effort" could add a civilian factory or two (or something else like a construction speed national spirit).

Art Suggestions
-Puppet on a String suggested: "couple of other focus icon changes: commonwealth ties can be the handshake with the crown/shield icon, and encourage colonial elite can be the 3 research flasks icon, because it is a research time bonus not some kind of strategic planning focus - makes sense!" I think these are great suggestions.
-The art for the intervention focuses could maybe be even changed to the countries flags with the crossed knives over them as used in the "Pre-Empt The Ideological Threat"
-The art for the coerce/influence focuses could be the handshake over the flag as used in the "Alliance With Germany" focus
-"The Three-Nation Solution" only seems to portray two nations, this one would be harder to change because it would require new artwork, so I don't really expect that to change.

Overall, the changes you've made to the UK look GREAT! I can't wait to play the UK and try out some ahistorical playthroughs, along with seeing how the historical path feels different. I also understand if you don't agree with all of my suggestions, but I feel that some of them should definitely be considered and/or implemented. Good luck to you and the rest of the devs throughout the rest of your development process for MtG, it looks amazing so far!

I hope I can do the Imperial Conference even if I am fascist, but I could see why you wouldn't allow that.
 
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HolyAmericanEmpire

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@Bratyn

Also, if you see this one, I've got some other small-ish suggestions. Sorry if I am bombarding you and you're busy. I have no clue how much time you have on your hands now that we are around 3/4 into production of Man the Guns (I assume), so if I am bothering you and you're busy, I apologize.

India
I remembered seeing (free) India have a war with Pakistan, which I presume was Pakistan's war for independence, during the first episode of the British Focus Tree Stream.
upload_2018-11-26_20-17-16.png

This is a great idea. As you said when India won, it is more often meant for Pakistan to win. I hope that means when Pakistan is winning, something triggers an event or decision for India to ask for peace and the two countries white peace. I really like this and to spice it up even more and make India even weaker, it would be neat if Burma/Myanmar declared its independence at the same time/around the same time as Pakistan. India wouldn't be in much of a position to deny them this, so whether or not they join the war for independence would be up to you. Otherwise, they could just declare their independence without a war. Historically, I'm not sure how much support there was for Burmese independence, but I know it was big enough for Japan to offer Burma independence if they were join them in the war against the allies (or something like that). Regardless as to how prominent the support was for Burmese independence was, if the government of India were to completely change in such a short time and they were to lose all of their British guidance, the Indian government would be in complete disarray (especially since they are in a war too) and there would be no reason for Burma to not want their independence.

Art in some of the events
Disclaimer: This one isn't as much of a big deal
Generally I don't mind when the art in events are reused, but I found some cases where it makes absolutely no sense.
upload_2018-11-26_20-42-58.png

When Ireland accepts the MacDonald Proposal, this is the image in the event. I have no clue why Indian soldiers are pictured in an agreement between Ireland and the UK.

That's all I have for today. I may or may not have some more things if you're interested. Like I said, I hope I'm not bothering you, I'm just not sure if they are still keeping you busy now that we are nearing the end (somewhat) on production for Man the Guns. Thanks again!
 
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Bratyn

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Overall, the changes you've made to the UK look GREAT! I can't wait to play the UK and try out some ahistorical playthroughs, along with seeing how the historical path feels different. I also understand if you don't agree with all of my suggestions, but I feel that some of them should definitely be considered and/or implemented. Good luck to you and the rest of the devs throughout the rest of your development process for MtG, it looks amazing so far!

I hope I can do the Imperial Conference even if I am fascist, but I could see why you wouldn't allow that.
Thanks! I hope you'll enjoy it :) I've now worked through your and @James Hale 's feedback, and implemented solutions to most of the stuff you guys mentioned. You'll hear more shortly.

As for the Imperial Conference, it's available as long as the dominions have the same ideology as you do.
 

James Hale

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Thanks! I hope you'll enjoy it :) I've now worked through your and @James Hale 's feedback, and implemented solutions to most of the stuff you guys mentioned. You'll hear more shortly.

As for the Imperial Conference, it's available as long as the dominions have the same ideology as you do.
Your efforts are appreciated!

I hoped you remember the (currently useless) Befriend China/Japan focuses for GER, and Influence China and Balkan focuses for ENG.

Regarding some icon changes, the following have really nice unused icons that should now be used:

- Cryptologic Bomb
- Air Defence
- Jet Aircraft (ENG) should use the generic rocket icon; although it'd be nice if a new generic jet planes icon was made? (because there are lots of jet plane focuses)
- Encourage Colonial Elite as mentioned before by previous user (three flasks icon)
- Home Defence (crown and shield icon - think this is already used in the new streams?)
- Issue Gasmasks should get a unique icon I think (doesn't have one currently)
- the focus to invade Ireland in the new UK tree should get a new icon if possible; maybe a cross-hairs icon over Ireland, like the new icons for Asia First and Europe First that the USA now has
- Little Entente (FRA) - has its own icon which CZE currently uses for its own version; this should be added for the FRA focus
- Italy First (ITA) - has its own icon that should be used

If you just look through the focus icons folder there's plenty of new artwork that has been added but not really used much (in some cases at all) and would add some cosmetic variety to the game. It is easy to add these new icons so if you have some time it would be nice. I assume more new generic icons are being made for 1.6, so some of these could surely be used also?

Some small improvements here too, if possible: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ase-add-some-improvements-for-france.1113143/
 

HolyAmericanEmpire

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Thanks! I hope you'll enjoy it :) I've now worked through your and @James Hale 's feedback, and implemented solutions to most of the stuff you guys mentioned. You'll hear more shortly.
It's great to know that the devs are listening. You guys may or may not know how appreciated it is when we see that you guys really care and listen to our feedback. A lot of developers for other games tend to not take the time to listen to community suggestions, except in the most dire scenarios, and then put what only they want into the game. Seeing a reply from a dev brightened my day! Thanks a lot.
 
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James Hale

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Oh and Bratyn sorry forgot to mention, but I did ask someone else but not sure if it was fixed yet... someone needs to edit the unitstacks.txt file so that the fleets in Brest (FRA) and Taranto (ITA) are actually in the right places. Currently they are wrong and the fleets hover somewhere randomly outside of port. Just use Nudger to make the fleets sit where the actual port icon is.

Thanks and sorry to tag you again but this is a very annoying issue when playing as these countries. :D

Oh and please add Sedan as a VP if you can, because it was an important historical area for battles and it would be a good target for historical invasions of the Ardennes. :)
 

Al Davoodi

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@Bratyn i know we are all late but is there espically with the new game rules we could make imperial Germany vs non alient GB more possible ingame some stuff about these focuses? And if Germany went imperial it looks like india can not get support by Germany right now, is this already fixed`?
 

Bratyn

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Glad to take your feedback, and happy to have implemented some of it, but I do want to point out that 4 out of the very next 5 replies after I mentioned I had fixed some stuff were requests to fix more things. If you do not get an answer when you point out issues, it is not necessarily because we didn't read it or even didn't do it, but it might also be because if we say we've fixed something we get drowned in a torrent of new requests that we don't have time for, and we feel bad for having to say no to you guys ;)
 

James Hale

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Sorry. :oops: :oops:

Thanks for all you've done.
 

HolyAmericanEmpire

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@Bratyn

That is exactly why I stopped making suggestions (beside the British Malaya one) after you responded. I can imagine it would be annoying and make us seem ungrateful when we just spam you with more requests right after you just said you already are going to implement some of our requests. I mean, we alone don't get to dictate what goes into the game. Thanks for listening to us, and once again, good luck with the rest of the production.
 

Bratyn

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No worries! :) I will see what among the new stuff I can get done, but no guarantees. I very much appreciate your enthusiasm, though, so thank you! ^^
 

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Sry we are just hypted for the expansion. It is great it is not such a torture like HF while we were waiting for it.
 

HolyAmericanEmpire

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@Bratyn

I've got more UK ideas that I wanted to put down somewhere, so I thought I could share them with you. Obviously most members on the team are about to be gone for Christmas break, so I don't expect a response anytime soon. Also, if we are just too late in development and you feel you don't have the time to put any of these in, feel free to just ignore this. I put some of the easier and more important ones near the top. I think the "Cosmetic Tags" section is the most important, but it would be the hardest to do probably.

Rhineland (Easy to do)
A simple thing to add as an option for the UK is another option for the Rhineland news event. Allow the UK to select another option other than issuing a diplomatic protest. Let it be something that allows the British to be more friendly and accepting towards the remilitarization. In a game where the UK player wants to become friends with Germany or never interact with them, they should be able to have a decision to not care about the remilitarization of the Rhineland.

"Commonwealth Ties" national focus (Easy to do)
I didn't catch this one when I was making balancing suggestions. I despise focuses that do nothing more than increase opinion for other countries. This focus deserves a very subtle buff, nothing too dramatic. What it needs to improve would be up to you. A great idea of how to give it a hidden buff is, once that focus has been taken by the UK, the dominions (and the British Raj) will always choose the appeasement paths in their trees (if they haven't chosen their political path yet). This is itself is not enough of a buff to the focus though because it will only be useful when the AI focuses are set to be random. This focus also isn't useful enough to help with the Imperial Conference because there are already many ways to improve the opinion of the commonwealth towards the UK. Overall, this focus is kind of nothing more than a roadblock in the tree.

Colors of the Puppets (Easy to do)
This one comes down to personal choice for you, the developer. When Ironclad releases, 4 out of 6 of the starting puppets for the UK will have a color of a shade of red. New Zealand and Australia will be the two outsiders. This isn't necessary, but a new color could be given to each of them to make them match the pattern. You could make the color just part of a cosmetic tag that would go away once they achieve their independence. Making them match the red shade pattern would truly represent the British Empire in a truly aesthetic way (without having to annex your puppets). This also kind of ties into the request many community members make of letting us have puppets that are the same color, but a different shade. It could be in the settings or a decision or something. That is a standalone issue though (it is something I support though). I'm not sure if the devs are aware of the color bug right now, but you should look into it. Weird large strips of color sometimes cast over a nation that is in a civil war or a nation that took the decision to form a nation. This bug started in Waking the Tiger.

Canada's Cosmetic Problems (Easy to fix)
The only current problems with Canada is that it becomes British North America when they are a democratic integrated puppet even if their master isn't Britain. It should also be a decision for Canada to chose if they want the maple leaf flag or the red ensign flag after they gain their independence as a democracy. The changing of the flag didn't happen in real life until the 60s, so it would be very controversial to change it in the 30s or 40s, the player should get the choice. The AI should also stick with the red ensign flag too for that reason.

British Malaya and Dutch East Indies Government
The ruling government of British Malaya and the Dutch East Indies should be changed to the non-aligned party to better represent their governments (Similarly to how the British Raj is non-aligned). Even if these countries claimed to have democratic governments, they would be phony democratic governments and the non-aligned party would better represent it. I feel that they were made democratic just because their masters are democratic. But, as we see with the Raj, this isn't necessary to do. The governments should better represent how they were actually run rather than mirroring their masters government at game start. If a good guy democratic UK wanted as many democratic friends as possible, they could just use the new system to make a puppet their own ideology (which we saw in the Bag of Tricks #3 dev diary). The other way you could do this is the way that the British Raj does it. You could make it so that British Malaya becomes democratic once they reach the autonomy level of dominion. But then again, how Malaysia gains independence may be revisited in the future, so what happens to their ruling party after WII could be left up to the player for now.

Cosmetic Tags (Harder to do, but a very good change)
I love cosmetic tags. They add so much immersion to the game and they can make ahistorical scenarios more realistic. I really like what was done with the different cosmetic tags that Canada has. This style of cosmetic tags should also be applied to the other puppets of the UK. South Africa staying as "South Africa" at every autonomy level is no fun and not very immersive. This goes for all of the other puppets too. None of them change their name based on autonomy levels besides Canada. Name changes and maybe even flag adjustments could be added for the changing level of autonomy of the puppets. This would add a lot of immersion, especially when the player is trying to form the Imperial Federation. My suggestions won't include names for the countries, just flags. Using a similar style of naming as Canada would be a good idea though. Obviously there would be some special cases though, so don't default to a generic naming system for every case. I think that cosmetic tags should be expanded across the entire game, but I will just stick to the starting puppets.

South Africa:

This was the last flag used for the country before they switched it in 1928 to the current one we have in game right now. They should switch to this flag once they reach the puppet or integrated puppet autonomy status. If South Africa gains freedom as a democracy, they should just use the current one in game because they didn't switch to their modern one until 1994. (South Africa should also have special cosmetic tags if puppeted by the Dutch, but this is about the UK)

Australia:

This flag is hardly different than the current flag of Australia, but this one was used from 1903-1908. It was approved by King Edward VII. Using an older and more royally connected flag would be great for a less autonomous version of the country. This would be great for the colony status. I could see why you would find that adding this one is not necessary though

This was the National Colonial Flag for Australia. This would be great for an Australia with the autonomy status of puppet or integrated puppet. Other historic or royal flags would be good too.

New Zealand:

Like the first Australia one, this one isn't very necessary either, but it could be used for the autonomous status of colony.

For the autonomous status of puppet or integrated puppet, New Zealand should receive any of the royal or viceregal flags. Any of those will do. This one is the flag of the governor of New Zealand from 1908-1936.

Australasia:
Once Australia and New Zealand both reach the autonomy status of puppet or integrated puppet, the UK should be able to take a decision to make the two come together to become Australasia. It would gain a cosmetic tag and cores on Australia and New Zealand. It should also gain cores on the other territory that would be associated with Australasia. (Please also make this a formable nation)

Australasia would use this flag for all autonomy statuses (unless you are able to find more), but the name of the country should still change based on autonomy status.

India:

This flag would be good to use for the integrated puppet autonomy status. The other flags work just fine for the other autonomy statuses. Like the others, the names need to change though. This is the Flag of the Viceroy of India. This flag could be used to show the Viceroy's total control of the country once it reaches the autonomy status of integrated puppet.

British Malaya:
I want to clarify that this may not make sense. How this colony is meant to be organized is very confusing due to the three different parts that made up the country. So if this flag doesn't make sense, it's because I don't fully understand the history.

This flag could be used for the colony and dominion autonomy status of the country.

My source for all of the flag images were on Wikipedia. "List of x-nation flags".
"Australasia" on Wikipedia for the Australasian flag.
"Federated Malay States" on Wikipedia for the Malaysian flag.

Fascist puppets of the UK: If the UK is fascist, it should use colonial flags or flags with the Union Jack in the canton for all nations below the autonomous level of satellite (or at least for the starting puppets). A fascist UK empire wouldn't try to please their puppets very much, so letting them express any kind of freedom in their flag would make no sense. Ex: Fascist New Zealand should not be called "Kiwi Empire" (which is just silly) and it should not have a flag with the silver fern in it. There are some situations where the UK should put a military general or a fascist from the UK in charge of their puppets. "Installing a Fascist Government" in your dominions wouldn't mean reaching out to a nationalist from said nation you are installing a fascist regime in. It would be much more oppressive and it wouldn't mean cooperating with political leaders who might hate the UK for having controlled them.

Monarchist puppets of the UK: These should generally use all of the same flags I posted the images to and the ones that are already in the game. I hope there are some good cosmetic tags and/or leaders for the loyalist uprisings you can stage when your dominions break away. I probably don't have to worry, but I don't want to see "Rod Hull" in charge of non-aligned Australia.

Communist puppets for the UK: These puppets were installed by the UK to give them more autonomy, so using a communist flag special to that nation alone would make a lot of sense. No changes would need to happen here. It is not necessary, but a USSR type style in a communist UK fashion could be used for the communist puppets like this:

As for the dominions, I do think they should use the USSR style flags in order to show that the UK is making them become communist. Not all of the UK puppets are just going to be ok with becoming communist. Having the communist British flag or a communist UK symbol somewhere in their newly communist dominion's flag would represent that they are forcing them to change.

"Consolidate the British Isles" national focus (Easy to do, but not necessary)
This focus gives a war goal on Ireland, but it lacks real incentive for the player to actually take it unless they want to take the "Unite the Anglosphere" focus. The small amount of industry Ireland provides isn't much. The focus should give cores on all of Ireland or allow for a decision "Integrate Ireland" to be taken which lets the UK get cores on Ireland if they own it (at the cost of political power). If you don't want them to gain cores on Ireland, then you could add some kind of other bonus to the focus. Another good way to indirectly make it better is to have "Unite the Anglosphere" give cores on Ireland.

Volunteers for the Spanish Civil War (Easy to do, but not necessary)
In real life the UK and France were both interested in what was going down in Spain once the civil war kicked off. Both nations did not end up getting involved, but they definitely considered it. I think a decision to send either Spain guns or fighters and a decision to send volunteers should be available. Supporting the Nationalists should maybe be locked behind the focus "A Change in Course." Sending equipment to the Republicans should definitely be allowed most of the time, but maybe the decision to send volunteers to the Republicans should be locked behind the "A Change in Course" focus.

The MacDonald Proposal (Not necessary, but not too hard to do)
In real life this was meant to be a promise that would be fulfilled after WWII if Ireland were to accept. I think this should change to work like the Azores Lease in a kind of way. If Ireland accepts, they would join the Allies, and then after WWII an event would fire where the UK can return northern Ireland or chose not to (the AI should always return it). So Ireland should not be instantly given northern Ireland once they join the Allies during the war. "de Valera wrote to Chamberlain formally rejecting the plan, arguing that it ‘would commit us definitely to an immediate abandonment of our neutrality’ while giving ‘no guarantee that in the end we would have a united Ireland’." https://bit.ly/2Ajt7rh. This isn't a big deal and I don't think anyone would care if it was changed, but it is more historically accurate and an easyish change.

Irish Free State (Not necessary and hardish to do, but historical)
This also isn't a necessary change, but Ireland, or the Irish Free State was still a dominion of the UK up until 1937. A simple way to do this would be to make Ireland a dominion at game start. Give them a cosmetic tag of the "Irish Free State" (which was their historical name). Have an event pop up on the day they gained their independence. The event would have two decisions, Ireland could break away or stay a dominion. In a historical game, the AI would chose to break away and lose their cosmetic tag. Ireland should also be able to stay a dominion. Realistically, this would upset the population, but this DLC isn't about Ireland, so I think you could just ignore the politics of Ireland and the consequences this would bring with it (Unless you wanted to add in a quick civil war months after they choose to stay a dominion (If you did, please give a nice color to the dynamic tag and not one of the defaults, they are mostly ugly)). If Ireland chose to stay a dominion, sometime in months or years later, they should be able to ask for northern Ireland back because they stayed loyal (AI democratic UK should almost always accept).

I hope you enjoyed some of the stuff in here, and merry Christmas!
 
Last edited:

Magnificent Genius

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Are the French scripted to go Little Entente if you go Nonaligned/Fascist?
 

cnwi

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@Bratyn

Thank you for this great tree.

I have a suggestion: add news to notify when the Dominions break away, because:

  1. Those are currently much more likely to break away, and as the UK you might not notice as nothing warns you in some paths (apart from the dominions that break away using the autonomy process, where you get a warning; but that's not all of them)
  2. It's also pretty important for other countries to know that the UK has lost some of its power
  3. it's anticlimactic when you play as a Dominion, finally break free, and get no acknowledgement
  4. from a flavour perspective, it's weird that such major events are not broadcasted around the world


As a side-note, it would be great to get minor countries, especially the Dominions, in the 'strengthen' part of the game rules. Those could become regional powers with this rule and provide for interesting gameplay scenarios, such as having a 3rd power in the Pacific beyond Japan and the US.
 
Last edited:

Vratislav

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Why would the Dominions break away in the first place over a royal marriage? Seems a bit contrived if you ask me.
 

cnwi

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Having explored the communist path, I wonder why the focus give Puppet war goals against countries that refuse to give up their subjects.
There is a big emphasize on decolonization in the communist branch, but the war goals focuses on giving you puppets again.
Why not Topple Government maybe?