HOI4 Dev Diary - Autonomy

[philjd]

Maybe something like Free>Dominion>Puppet> Protectorate>Colony, sounds more accurate and logical

I'd swap Protectorate and Puppet around as a protectorate is a sem-autonomous state thjat is not fully controlled by it's 'master' whereas a Puppet has everything controlled by the master.

 

[TheWackyWombat]

@podcat - You say the master with the subject 'above the law limit', is there anything that prevents the subject from dropping the law to Closed Economy (or Limited Exports)? Or does above the limit mean that the master will always have access to some of the subject's resources, no matter the trade law.

It seems counter productive to puppet a country, but leave them the ability to deny you access to any of their resources.

I guess there could be a special master/subject trade law that overrides the national rules, but I'm interested to know how that's going to be handled.

 

[Zarathustra_the]

@podcat pretty urgent question, do integrated puppets and puppets provide the master with NIC? If not can that be added at least as a rule for the modders. My though being is the common Naval Defense policy of the Commonwealth until the 1930s, might be better reflected with the Dominions providing the UK with a portion of their NIC.

 

[Axe99]

@podcat pretty urgent question, do integrated puppets and puppets provide the master with NIC? If not can that be added at least as a rule for the modders. My though being is the common Naval Defense policy of the Commonwealth until the 1930s, might be better reflected with the Dominions providing the UK with a portion of their NIC.

It's an interesting idea, but given the Dominions would be at war when the UK was at war, the naval vessels would all get to fight together (and, at least in the Australian case, I think we only paid for our navy, rather than subsidised the British one, noting that it was all very inter-related).

Another danger is that the higher-than-historical levels of naval IC (or at least ship building capacity) for small (and some large) nations combined with this could lead to the RN becoming an unstoppable (by anyone except the US) monster.

 

[Zarathustra_the]

It's an interesting idea, but given the Dominions would be at war when the UK was at war, the naval vessels would all get to fight together (and, at least in the Australian case, I think we only paid for our navy, rather than subsidised the British one, noting that it was all very inter-related).

Another danger is that the higher-than-historical levels of naval IC (or at least ship building capacity) for small (and some large) nations combined with this could lead to the RN becoming an unstoppable (by anyone except the US) monster.

There is some interesting stuff been done in counter-factual research. The suggestion is that with a 1944 or 1948 war start date, the fleet would have been such that it was a monster. Hell, a 1941 war start would have seen Britain's shipbuilding industry fully recovered from the depression and substantive steps having been made with armour plating.

Your also a bit wrong there. Under the UAP, the policy was to give money and material to the Royal Navy as part of the Fortress Singapore strategic planning. New Zealand did this also, a notable example being the Achilles.

Enabling for a sharing of NIC would make sense anyway, especially for the colonial levels, and potentially as a rule set by focuses. The Imperial Common Defense Policy was predicated on the Royal Navy and had been since the beginning of the 1900s. Even Canada provided a portion of its naval industry towards the production of the British Fleet in the 1930s. I am not calling for the full sharing of NIC, but rather a fragmentary, so for dominions say 25% NIC, Colonies 50%, and then puppets give 75% without it going any higher. So your balance argument kinda doesn't work

 

[Axe99]

There is some interesting stuff been done in counter-factual research. The suggestion is that with a 1944 or 1948 war start date, the fleet would have been such that it was a monster. Hell, a 1941 war start would have seen Britain's shipbuilding industry fully recovered from the depression and substantive steps having been made with armour plating.

This is primarily due to a large fleet being built in Britain though - how much of that fleet was the RN planning to build using Cockatoo Island and Canadian yards, let alone in NZL and SAF?

Your also a bit wrong there. Under the UAP, the policy was to give money and material to the Royal Navy as part of the Fortress Singapore strategic planning. New Zealand did this also, a notable example being the Achilles.

In the vanilla game, the Achilles starts off as an RN ship, so that's already covered off . Also, while I don't know the figures, I imagine that the amount of money being given to Britain for Singapore wasn't the equivalent of 33 per cent of the cost of maintaining and building the RAN (happy to be proved wrong as always though ), and the money was provided for the construction of the base wasn't it, rather than for construction of new naval assets to be stationed there?

Enabling for a sharing of NIC would make sense anyway, especially for the colonial levels, and potentially as a rule set by focuses. The Imperial Common Defense Policy was predicated on the Royal Navy and had been since the beginning of the 1900s. Even Canada provided a portion of its naval industry towards the production of the British Fleet in the 1930s. I am not calling for the full sharing of NIC, but rather a fragmentary, so for dominions say 25% NIC, Colonies 50%, and then puppets give 75% without it going any higher. So your balance argument kinda doesn't work

My key point here was given the amount of NIC available to minors that wasn't there historically. Any of the dominions can far out-build what they did historically with their starting NIC alone (historically, NZ and SAF didn't build a single ship to HoI4 standards, and Canada and Australia only built four destroyers apiece, IIRC (going from memory though, so may have forgotten something)). Even if Britain only gets 25 per cent, it's 25 per cent of a significantly larger slice of NIC than it should have access to even if it was allowed to have 100 per cent of the historical NIC of the dominions.

As an aside, what RN construction of HoI4-level ships was done in Australian and Canadian yards? I'm not aware of any (all the HoI4-level ships Australia and Canada had at the start of the game (aside from HMAS Adelaide, built well before 1936) were built in Britain, and while Britain did get Australia's seaplane carrier, which was built in Australia, this isn't within the scope of the game).

 

[Zarathustra_the]

This is primarily due to a large fleet being built in Britain though - how much of that fleet was the RN planning to build using Cockatoo Island and Canadian yards, let alone in NZL and SAF?



In the vanilla game, the Achilles starts off as an RN ship, so that's already covered off . Also, while I don't know the figures, I imagine that the amount of money being given to Britain for Singapore wasn't the equivalent of 33 per cent of the cost of maintaining and building the RAN (happy to be proved wrong as always though ), and the money was provided for the construction of the base wasn't it, rather than for construction of new naval assets to be stationed there?



My key point here was given the amount of NIC available to minors that wasn't there historically. Any of the dominions can far out-build what they did historically with their starting NIC alone (historically, NZ and SAF didn't build a single ship to HoI4 standards, and Canada and Australia only built four destroyers apiece, IIRC (going from memory though, so may have forgotten something)). Even if Britain only gets 25 per cent, it's 25 per cent of a significantly larger slice of NIC than it should have access to even if it was allowed to have 100 per cent of the historical NIC of the dominions.

As an aside, what RN construction of HoI4-level ships was done in Australian and Canadian yards? I'm not aware of any (all the HoI4-level ships Australia and Canada had at the start of the game (aside from HMAS Adelaide, built well before 1936) were built in Britain, and while Britain did get Australia's seaplane carrier, which was built in Australia, this isn't within the scope of the game).

I recall substantial convoy and escort production being done in Canadian Shipyards. Tbh however, I was speaking not so much of direct ship production, which HOI does not model well (limits for instance of slipways, no matter how much industry you have, there is gonna be a physical slipway limit, which HOI ignores) but more the production of gun barrels, fittings, boilers and all the like. Considering how all costs are abstracted into original ship building costs.

Also it is nice symmetry, if you can get MIC from a subject, you should be able to get NIC.

 

[Axe99]

I recall substantial convoy and escort production being done in Canadian Shipyards. Tbh however, I was speaking not so much of direct ship production, which HOI does not model well (limits for instance of slipways, no matter how much industry you have, there is gonna be a physical slipway limit, which HOI ignores) but more the production of gun barrels, fittings, boilers and all the like. Considering how all costs are abstracted into original ship building costs.

Also it is nice symmetry, if you can get MIC from a subject, you should be able to get NIC.

I definitely agree that if you can get MIC (and CIC) from a subject, it'd make sense to be able to get NIC as well. While I'd categorise the shipment of guns and the like from Canada to the UK during WW2 as lend-lease rather than giving NIC, they definitely made components (I can't recall off the top of my head either what they made or where to look it up, but I'd be surprised if they didn't make some 20mm and 3in guns at the very least).

 

[felipe.fgd]

PARADOX, when are you going to FIX Brazil in the game??

 

[Axe99]

PARADOX, when are you going to FIX Brazil in the game??

Have you made a post with what you think should be changed in the suggestion thread? Probably a more useful place to post it, apologies if you've already done that.

 

[FOARP]

As the swedish weather takes a turn for the worse

Perfect time to attack Russia!

 

[Milano3093]

Question: If you play as like the UK, is it possible to give for example Egypt more autonomy (to make them a dominion member, instead of fully annexed) when you release them? As it is now they just become a fully independant country with no allegiance to the uk in this matter.