HOI4 Dev Diary - Autonomy

[Had a dad]

What about the Battle of Plattsburgh?

It was the final battle of a back and forth, and while decisive, so had most of the others prior to it in the region. It was significant though as between it and the defense of Baltimore, they took away all / most leverage that the British held for getting any concessions during the peace talks. Now if you look at it in the overall pattern, one could say it was the beginning of a tide change swinging to the US side culminating with N.O., however the British were war weary after 20 years of wars with Napoleon, so hard to say what would have happened if they had made a truly concerted effort had they decided to cease all offensive actions for even a year and built up for a 3 pronged attack (frontier- Detroit area, into NY and an amphibian assault on the New England coast using a significant portion of their military might at the time.

I fear though I've contributed to causing this discussion to become horrible off topic

 

[steve213]

It was the final battle of a back and forth, and while decisive, so had most of the others prior to it in the region. It was significant though as between it and the defense of Baltimore, they took away all / most leverage that the British held for getting any concessions during the peace talks. Now if you look at it in the overall pattern, one could say it was the beginning of a tide change swinging to the US side culminating with N.O., however the British were war weary after 20 years of wars with Napoleon, so hard to say what would have happened if they had made a truly concerted effort had they decided to cease all offensive actions for even a year and built up for a 3 pronged attack (frontier- Detroit area, into NY and an amphibian assault on the New England coast using a significant portion of their military might at the time.

I fear though I've contributed to causing this discussion to become horrible off topic

you really have. but to hopefully conclude this discussion the war of 1812 was fought for no reason (although the US did gain something that a lot of people miss) but actual borders did not change and there and neither of them gained any concessions from the other.

 

[Had a dad]

although the US did gain something that a lot of people miss

the only thing they gained was what Britain stopped doing because they were no longer at war with Napoleon. There were no concessions made by the British other than compensation for slave owners.

if people would like to continue this discussion, PM me and I will pull all posts and move the discussion to the OT, else I would say that this is a closed subject on the HOI4 forum.

 

[Gamengervi]

I've pretty much exhausted my knowledge on the subject.

 

[mattimatt1]

cool

 

[Axe99]

D'oh - I'm a dumbo; the answer is obvious. The UK doesn't have to call Egypt to arms at all - just use the Military Access they have there. Hmm - would that allow battles in Egypt itself, I wonder?

Not as dopey as me, I'd completely forgotten about the need to actually fight on Egypt . As you suggest, I think that'd still be an issue (and probably one that would require some gameplay-mechanic coding gymnastics to get around in a way that didn't break a whole lot of other things). Well, we're closer at least (and I could always be wrong again, lol) .

 

[xtfoster]

Will New Zealand and India receive their own National Focuses?

IIRC they already said New Zealand will have one, the British Raj will most likely have one as well, not sure about India since it didn't exist separate from the Raj (which includes Pakistan and East Pakistan (aka Myanmar/Burma) until 1946.

 

[xtfoster]

...(or the President's) English.

Gods no. The whole point of the fight against Common Core is that we don't have, and most don't want, Federal standards for education. Instead we feel it would be better for the local (State > County > City > (School) District) governments to set their own standards.

 

[Axe99]

Gods no. The whole point of the fight against Common Core is that we don't have, and most don't want, Federal standards for education. Instead we feel it would be better for the local (State > County > City > (School) District) governments to set their own standards.

Sorry, it was a just a throw-away line - there was definitely no implied "the President should impose a certain standard of English on the whole of the US" hidden sub-text .

 

[Sir Garnet]

mod edit

I believe in game terms for the US this translates as greater National Unity. For Canada - greater National Unity and more Autonomy, and I expect there should also be a modifier in relations or some other indicia of a warmer attitude towards the empire in particular and also the Allies by extension (the more so where forces fought close together). How is this represented as working in game?

 

[Meteor]

OMG... That was a lot of off-topic discussion.
I have not heard substancial (a least for me) news from the devs about long discussed problems and necessary improvements. Only a lot of blabla about cosmetic and toys.
The game is 6 month old now and the usual use of "lets wait, the devs will fix it" is not that impressive any more.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Interesting to see Canada also getting the Great Depression national spirit.

 

[just_a_beaver]

Interesting to see Canada also getting the Great Depression national spirit.

Well Canada did suffer from the Great Depression...

 

[Mannstien]

Hmm, not sure I like a first expansion that's just new focus trees for some minors and how the master - puppet relationships work no offense to those living there but I was hoping to see an actual Pacific war before this as it doesn't exist. I certainly think the expansion pass was no longer worth it as the things I'd like to see are apparently down the line further, wish I could have an option on which expansion I get.

 

[Dudas Drakaan]

they dont become your cores no. would be total no brainer to hoover everything then

Is there any plan to make coring possible? Such as making a continuum very similar to this system where you can gradually influence a region from territory to state to core (or however you want to break it up)?

I find it odd that there are all these great benefits for having an integrated puppet, and yet you essentially get punished for annexation. It makes it seem like diplo-annexation is pointless and is generally just a bad button to press and it'll probably be something the AI presses and then becomes weaker as a result.

 

[Axe99]

Hmm, not sure I like a first expansion that's just new focus trees for some minors and how the master - puppet relationships work no offense to those living there but I was hoping to see an actual Pacific war before this as it doesn't exist. I certainly think the expansion pass was no longer worth it as the things I'd like to see are apparently down the line further, wish I could have an option on which expansion I get.

My memory's extra hazy this weekend, but I think they were going to try and address the Pacific War a bit in patch 1.3 (and, rightly so, the Pacific War in its current state should be a patch thing, not an expansion thing) - so I don't think it's bad we're not hearing about the Pacific in the expansion features. That said, I could be wrong, the Pacific War may have been the patch after this one instead (but I'm sure we both hope it isn't ).

Is there any plan to make coring possible? Such as making a continuum very similar to this system where you can gradually influence a region from territory to state to core (or however you want to break it up)?

I find it odd that there are all these great benefits for having an integrated puppet, and yet you essentially get punished for annexation. It makes it seem like diplo-annexation is pointless and is generally just a bad button to press and it'll probably be something the AI presses and then becomes weaker as a result.

Coring in 12 years (the timespan of the game) in the 20th century (when very, very few nations have successfully "cored" areas, even when given far longer time periods to do it - the 20th and 21st centuries have tended towards fragmentation of states rather than nations becoming larger) feels too rare to me (ie, just my opinion) to be worth a mechanic. I can't think of a single successful example of what we'd think of as coring in the 1936-48 timeframe. If you can think of something, then post it up and it might be a useful case study for developing the mechanic around.

 

[adam_grif]

Coring in 12 years (the timespan of the game) in the 20th century (when very, very few nations have successfully "cored" areas, even when given far longer time periods to do it - the 20th and 21st centuries have tended towards fragmentation of states rather than nations becoming larger) feels too rare to me (ie, just my opinion) to be worth a mechanic. I can't think of a single successful example of what we'd think of as coring in the 1936-48 timeframe. If you can think of something, then post it up and it might be a useful case study for developing the mechanic around.

At the end of the war, Germans were expelled from East Prussia, Silesia, East Pomerania and parts of Czechoslovakia. The USSR and Poland split East Prussia between them, Poland took control of Silesia and East Pomerania etc. You could consider this to be a form of "coring" - the original German populations were removed, other new populations moved in. This is probably the closest thing I can think of to "coring" - in the sense that the territory had very few or no people left to resist the new government, and the new populations were loyal to their homeland. The USSR and Poland also had a population exchange for Poles, Ukrainians and Belorussians who were on the "wrong side" of the Curzon line (the new dividing line between Poland and the USSR, after East Poland was conquered by the USSR in 1939).

The territory gained by the Belorussian and Ukranian SSRs remain the territory of their successor states today. Kaliningrad Oblast is a territory of the Russian Federation. The border between Poland and Germany is not controvertial, and remains what it was at the end of WWII (with the exception that East and West Germany unified, obviously). I believe there were lesser expulsions and exchanges in Hungary, the Baltic States, Romania, the Netherlands and so on. The modern states of Europe are HIGHLY homogeneous compared to their Pre-WWI, and even Pre-WWII states.

The problem, of course, is that HoI4 is not going to model ethnic cleansing, even if it is in a "gentle" form, i.e. population exchange (which is still highly distressing and undesirable to the families who get forcibly relocated and lose their homes). And it is CERTAINLY not going to model what the Germans intended to do if they were victorious in the east.

 

[Balesir]

Thanks. I know that, perhaps I wasn't clear. What I was referring to is the regions view in HOI- which neatly divided the island of Britain, into i think 3 regions. Southern England, Northern England and Scotland. It could have just been Southern Britain, Central Britain and Northern Britain. I admit a minor but still valid niggle but I was adding a few examples.

Sure. In my mod "Waltzing Matilda" I have four regions, "Southern England", "Northern England", "Western England and Wales" and "Scotland and Northern Ireland". The problems with the regions are several, though. There are too few in vanilla, I think, leading to curious and unjustified problems with air and naval operations, and they often don't represent areas likely to be "operational areas", which they should. I have tried to address this in the mod, but it's a work in progress.

Northern Ireland and the Republic should be an Irish region and not in the above. Easy.

Ireland should probably be two regions, but that's something I'll probably mod in, too.

That's what I did in my mod. I renamed the Scotland and Northern Ireland strategic region to just 'Scotland' and gave all of its Irish provinces to the Ireland strategic region. Granted, I united Ireland as well, but all in all it seems to work fine during war. At least from what I've gathered.

There are a couple of issues with this to my mind. The first is that the UK used air bases in Ulster to give convoy cover to the Northeastern Atlantic. They even overflew Irish territory with the (secret) agreement of the Irish government, so just adjusting the regions ought to work fine. The second issue is that there were secret arrangenets put in place for the UK to supply rapid support (from Ulster) in the event that the Nazis decided to invade Eire as a "back door" into the UK, which is a thing for which there were plans at one stage (however unlikely they were to ever get sanctioned, as their practicality must have been borderline - but then, you never knew with Hitler, as the war wore on...)

 

[safe-keeper]

I hope I will also be able to build infrastructure and such for allies, even if it's through a mod.

 

[grandad1982]

Hmm, not sure I like a first expansion that's just new focus trees for some minors and how the master - puppet relationships work no offense to those living there but I was hoping to see an actual Pacific war before this as it doesn't exist. I certainly think the expansion pass was no longer worth it as the things I'd like to see are apparently down the line further, wish I could have an option on which expansion I get.

Well hopefully you've learnt a lesson there. Never buy expansion passes. Not only does it mean you might pay for stuff you don't want but it is also a slippery in terms of poor practice imo.