HoI4 Dev Diary - A Post-Colonial World: Map Changes and New Tags

HoI4 Dev Diary - A Post-Colonial World: Map Changes and New Tags

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Sir Garnet

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Does not seem likely with Boer nationalism and recent evidence of the need to stick together against common enemies.
 

Juan Olivier

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Does not seem likely with Boer nationalism and recent evidence of the need to stick together against common enemies.
Not sure why you use Boer nationalism as a reason for not having free Boer Republics. Nationalism is something that would push people to rule themselves, not subjugate themselves under foreign rule. The Boers never wanted to be in the British South African union, the reason they rebelled to free their republics in 1914.

Also what is this common enemy? In the early 1900 the British were the main enemy of the Boer people.
 

Balesir

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Not sure why you use Boer nationalism as a reason for not having free Boer Republics. Nationalism is something that would push people to rule themselves, not subjugate themselves under foreign rule. The Boers never wanted to be in the British South African union, the reason they rebelled to free their republics in 1914.

Also what is this common enemy? In the early 1900 the British were the main enemy of the Boer people.
Your history seems to be a bit muddled. At the turn of the 20th century the British and the Boer republics were certainly at odds, and many Afrikaner people living in Cape Colony were sympathetic to the Boer republics' cause. The governments of the Transvaal and Orange Free State considered that a short, sharp war with Britain would bring significant concessions to alleviate their grievances, but they turned out to be wrong. After a protracted and nasty war, the Boer republics were forced to effectively submit.

But if the Boer republics lost the war, the Africaner people seem to have won the peace. With the formation of the Union in 1910, the first prime minister was Louis Botha - an Afrikaner. There was some resistance to joining Britain in its was against the Central Powers in 1914, but the resistance was put down by the South African government (which was quite heavily dominated by Afrikaners) and South Africa played a part in WW1 under the Allied flag.

By 1936, then, 'Afrikaner nationalism' centred around the independence of the entire South African union. The opportunity given to South Rhodesia to join the Union might even be seen as an attempt by the British to dilute the Afrikaner domination of South African politics by the inclusion of a more "British" colony which ultimately failed. So, I don't think that dividing South Africa up into separate States makes sense for Afrikaner nationalists in 1936. Far from gaining more freedom, they would just risk losing de facto control of Cape Colony, which had a much higher proportion of "British" at the time. Better to remain a union and seek independence as a whole (which seemed to be working, to some extent).
 

Adrianople

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Would have been nice to see Boer countries added in Africa like Transvaal and Orange Free State.
I could understand Lesotho and Swaziland (Eswatini), but for the Boers, South Africa was their way of gaining control of their fate while still being under the British. All of the democratic leaders of South Africa are men who were both citizens of Transvaal and Oranje. D.F. Malan, the instituter of Apartheid, was a Boer of the Cape Colony, and thus, as all three were leaders of South Africa (Herzog, Smuts and Malan in that order), having them ability for Boers (as they are in power at the start of the game) to destroy the union that they negotiated for so fiercely makes little sense, especially regarding the fact that Herzog and Smuts managed in the aftermath of the Boer Wars to negotiate that it would be the Boers who had real power in South Africa, and no one else.
 

Juan Olivier

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Your history seems to be a bit muddled.
Nope, my history is correct. The Boers had no love for the British, even until today. You seem confused because you incorrectly think Afrikaners and the Boers are the same people, that is why you think the Boers warmed up to the British later on, while it was the Afrikaners that cooperated with the British.

Here is a blog with many articals discussing the subject of Afrikaner and Boer in detail.
https://republicantrekkervolk.blogspot.com

People like Louis Botha and Jan Smits that fought for the Boers but later started working for the British are widely considered traitors by the Boer people. It was the Cape Dutch(Afrikaners) that wanted to work more with the British since they have always been neutral and/of positive to colonial governments, including the British.

The people in the Cape that were sympathetic to the Boers were not the Afrikaners, it was the Grensboere, the families that stayed behind on the eastern border when the Groot Trek took place to form the Boer Republics and people. These are the people that the Cape Rebels came from. You will also find an artical in that blog named "The Cape Rebels Were Not Cape Dutch."

The South African forces that put down the Boer rebellion of 1914 were made up of British and Afrikaners, but mostly Afrikaners. The Afrikaners dominated the newly formed government because the Afrikaners were always much more numerous then the Boers, especially since the British killed half of the entire Boer child population in their concentration camps in 1900-1902.

Keeping South Africa as one country was better for Afrikaner nationalists, since it gave them more power. It was however not good for the Boer nationalists that did not want to live under Afrikaner and British rule.

Unfortunately most people think Afrikaners and Boers are the same people today because the Afrikaners did their best during the 1900s to make the Boers think of themselves as Afrikaners so that they can boost their own numbers.

For more information you can also read Ron's Wiki page, he specializes in Boer history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ron7

There are also some books on this Afrikaner and Boer confusion if you are interested.
 

Juan Olivier

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I could understand Lesotho and Swaziland (Eswatini), but for the Boers, South Africa was their way of gaining control of their fate while still being under the British. All of the democratic leaders of South Africa are men who were both citizens of Transvaal and Oranje. D.F. Malan, the instituter of Apartheid, was a Boer of the Cape Colony, and thus, as all three were leaders of South Africa (Herzog, Smuts and Malan in that order), having them ability for Boers (as they are in power at the start of the game) to destroy the union that they negotiated for so fiercely makes little sense, especially regarding the fact that Herzog and Smuts managed in the aftermath of the Boer Wars to negotiate that it would be the Boers who had real power in South Africa, and no one else.
Read my reply to Balesir, the Boers and the Afrikaners are not the same people. That is why many people get confused with this subject.
 

Balesir

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Here is a blog with many articals discussing the subject of Afrikaner and Boer in detail.
https://republicantrekkervolk.blogspot.com
Interesting to know that this is a political cause, but to be honest none of it looks in the slightest like an "ethnicity" or a 'race'. It looks just like a politico-religious grouping or party. Interesting to find that it's still (or is again beginning to be) considered a 'thing', but really this is 'normal' (in the sense of the normal distribution) politics, it seems to me.
 

Juan Olivier

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Interesting to know that this is a political cause, but to be honest none of it looks in the slightest like an "ethnicity" or a 'race'. It looks just like a politico-religious grouping or party. Interesting to find that it's still (or is again beginning to be) considered a 'thing', but really this is 'normal' (in the sense of the normal distribution) politics, it seems to me.
Yes you can probably say it started out as politics in the 1600s. With some people in the cape being ok with colonial rule and some being republican minded preferring self rule. But over the centuries the Boer established themselves as an separate nation. First moving away to become the Trekboere and than later the Grensboere and then later establishing themselves as the Boers of the Boer Republics. Actual people with their own identity, own lands, own values and own government and laws. The Americans are similar. They were also once British that had a political disagreement with the British in the UK, but now no one will deny the fact that they are their own separate nation. The Boers separated themselves from the people in the cape just like the Americans separated themselves from the people in the UK.
 

Adrianople

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Yes you can probably say it started out as politics in the 1600s. With some people in the cape being ok with colonial rule and some being republican minded preferring self rule. But over the centuries the Boer established themselves as an separate nation. First moving away to become the Trekboere and than later the Grensboere and then later establishing themselves as the Boers of the Boer Republics. Actual people with their own identity, own lands, own values and own government and laws. The Americans are similar. They were also once British that had a political disagreement with the British in the UK, but now no one will deny the fact that they are their own separate nation. The Boers separated themselves from the people in the cape just like the Americans separated themselves from the people in the UK.
Just one problem with the last comparison: the Anglos in America and the Anglos in Britain are now different countries. The Boers and the Afrikaners are in one country: Suid-Afrika. But I suppose why you say it: same language, but major differences in how the world is seen and other important societal factors that cause the change to manifest.
 

Juan Olivier

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Just one problem with the last comparison: the Anglos in America and the Anglos in Britain are now different countries.
Al thou it is true that the Boers and Afrikaners are in the same country today because of the British forcing them into one country, it is also true the Boers established their own identity long before they lost their land to the Brits. A people survives even if someone is occupying them.
 

cnwi

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@Bratyn
quoted from reddit:

"Very minor oversight but just irks me:

Back then the southern part of French Equatorial Africa was just one large state "Gabon". Therefore the imperial Germany focus that gives wargoals (Break Anglo French Hegemony or something) gives a claim to Gabon.

However, with the new states in MtG, Cameroon was made a new state. The focus, however, still gives a claim on Gabon (which is just now modern day Gabon). For imperial Germany, the claim should be Cameroon instead. Similarly, now that Rwanda and Burundi are states, claims should be given for those two as well, being part of German East Africa alongside Tanganyika."
 

Bratyn

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Thanks! Very good point :) I have updated the focus to take all the new states, tags, and their potential existence into consideration.
 

cnwi

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Thanks! Very good point :) I have updated the focus to take all the new states, tags, and their potential existence into consideration.
Great as always Bratyn :)
Just adding users have reported some focus haven't been updated with the new states you added, such as the SAF focus to request control of Africa from the UK. I haven't checked myself though.
 

Dragula

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What HOI4 needs is something similar to the feature of EU4, where you can create your own vassal states and name them yourself, and choose which territories they get.