HOI4 Cornflakes 1.5.2 BETA patch [checksum: f49b]

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Meglok

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Why shouldn't Germany be able to build "150 CIC before Danzig?"

Germany had 2.5 million in the Wehrmacht at the time of Fall Weiss. Arguably, the fraction of the population which supported any party other than the Nazis was ~0% Certainly it was IMPOSSIBLE to express opposition to the Nazi party, so why should it even be necessary to have PP costing aspects like "ban democracy/communism" or "party raids?" If the game seeks to be informed by history, it should NOT be necessary.

Germany had something like 86 infantry divisions, 8 armored, and 12 motorized, and in the ballpark of 2000 aircraft by the time of Fall Weiss. They also had a couple score Type II and a few Type VIIC submarines, which were actually reasonably effective right from the beginning.

I would say that various indirect lines of evidence suggest that the stability and popularity of the German regime INCREASED substantially by December 1939 after the defeat of Poland, and then again a year later once the Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemberg and France were wrapped up, and England had been kicked off the continent. Yugoslavia was a cakewalk

Despite Hitler being an utter idiot when it came to grand military strategy, and many in his inner circle being one manner of incompetent (if not several manners all packaged into one) and despite the Wehrmacht not being substantially larger than the French army (nor necessarily any more "advanced") the Nazis steamrollered Poland, France, the Low Countries, Norway and Denmark for a grand total of no more than ~195,000 total casualties (Battle of France ~138k killed and wounded; Operation Weserübung ~6000 total; Fall Weiss ~50,000).

In all of my play on Regular difficulty as Germany (the only position I have played since buying the game a couple weeks ago), I have made it to ~1941 at least 7 times and then restarted for various reasons. I have been playing strategy games since 1984, so while some problems I have suffered in initial play might be attributable to unfamiliarity with the game design, I think I qualify as an "experienced gamer."

In all my experience, I have found that achieving what the Nazi regime achieved by end of 1941 is, perhaps not "impossible" but involves a high degree of careful analysis, exacting attention, and excessive micro-managing. Out of the 7 or 8 attempts I have "succeeded" in achieving what the Nazis achieved a grand total of zero times. First of all, my casualties are always enormously inflated, up into the multi-hundreds of thousands. THAT excludes me from claiming "success" at achieving historicity.

Poland generally takes about twice as long, and this I attribute to the way the capitulation mechanic was changed, as well as perhaps the fact that I never use Molotov-Ribbentrop.

France holds out for far too long in my experience, though again that is perhaps a result of me seeking full annexation and not allying with Italy (because in one session Italy annexed all of France!).

I have yet to even bother with Weserübung simply because I have focused on trying to achieved the larger objectives in a relatively historical manner before adding the somewhat more optional objective to the mix.

With all that said, from my standpoint, as a strictly singleplayer mode user, I would say that as of 1.51 "something was not right" in how much resistance a German player met in attempting to repeat historical outcomes. This doesn't necessarily mean that Germany needed buffing; in fact I suspect that the problems have more to do with certain game mechanics than with Germany specifically, but it also doesn't mean that Germany needed debuffing.

The views of multiplayer mode users MUST be kept strictly separate from those of singleplaye mode users, and this is why I am so adamant and outspoken in criticizing this manner of packaging and selling and supporting the product. It is a colossal blunder to try to make one rule system work for both modes of play and none of us should have to suffer through it.

The ball is in Paradox court: fix the game by doing a branch in the .exe so that there are effectively TWO games in one and discussions about the two modes are always kept separate. Make rules changes suited to balance MP as needed and without consequence for SP mode; likewise make changes suited to balance for SP as needed and without consequence for MP mode.

No game company is going to create what would be effectively 2 games for separate audiences. It would require them to almost double their assigned content, coding, and QA staff on the game. Especially when MP play is at best 15% of their market for HOI4.

This is why there are mods specifically for MP play.
 

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No game company is going to create what would be effectively 2 games for separate audiences. It would require them to almost double their assigned content, coding, and QA staff on the game. Especially when MP play is at best 15% of their market for HOI4.

This is why there are mods specifically for MP play.

I look at it like this: if it was worth it to them to do the development to make the application network with other users's clients (which is an ENORMOUS amount of work), then it is worth it to them to (a) make it work WELL, while also (b) keeping their cash cow (the ~85% or whatever who buy and play the game for singleplayer mode primarily) happy.

When you go making changes to fundamental game dynamics in a "mostly" singleplayer game that will tend to piss off singleplayer players for the sake of the fraction of the players who want it balanced for multiplayer, well that just isn't good business. Would it be more effort to partition the insides of the .exe to run in two different modes? Yes, of course it would. But if this was the design principal from the outset, it would be perfectly efficient to design the game that way. Object oriented programming is basically all about making this kind of thing doable with minimal effort. For the most part, the partitioning could amount to a list of parameters that get different values if the game is currently running an MP session. Some conditionals that check that and then send the runtime the MP parameters versus the SP parameters. Player logs out of the MP session and the software now "unticks" the "in MP mode" conditional.

This engine is what? 15 or 20 years old? Probably looks like a Rube Goldberg machine "inside," but presumably they got some talented coders who spend all their free time debugging the thing and have developed a keen sense for what it all means.
 

Zwirbaum

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I look at it like this: if it was worth it to them to do the development to make the application network with other users's clients (which is an ENORMOUS amount of work), then it is worth it to them to (a) make it work WELL, while also (b) keeping their cash cow (the ~85% or whatever who buy and play the game for singleplayer mode primarily) happy.

When you go making changes to fundamental game dynamics in a "mostly" singleplayer game that will tend to piss off singleplayer players for the sake of the fraction of the players who want it balanced for multiplayer, well that just isn't good business. Would it be more effort to partition the insides of the .exe to run in two different modes? Yes, of course it would. But if this was the design principal from the outset, it would be perfectly efficient to design the game that way. Object oriented programming is basically all about making this kind of thing doable with minimal effort. For the most part, the partitioning could amount to a list of parameters that get different values if the game is currently running an MP session. Some conditionals that check that and then send the runtime the MP parameters versus the SP parameters. Player logs out of the MP session and the software now "unticks" the "in MP mode" conditional.

This engine is what? 15 or 20 years old? Probably looks like a Rube Goldberg machine "inside," but presumably they got some talented coders who spend all their free time debugging the thing and have developed a keen sense for what it all means.

And who will come up with two balance set values? Who will balance for MP and who will for SP? What is good for SP balance and isn't for MP? And vice versa? What isn't balanced in MP and what isn't in SP? What new features should be designed with thought for it? SP primarily and then adjusted for MP? Or MP first, SP second etc.

There is no easy answer for this one.
 

TorAndreKongelf

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AI BUG: I just lost another 14 divisions of panzer because they found out in France they would take a trip on a boat and get slaughtered by the british navy. For no particular reason. Can please the AI check if it has navy superiority before doing such things?
 

Meglok

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AI BUG: I just lost another 14 divisions of panzer because they found out in France they would take a trip on a boat and get slaughtered by the british navy. For no particular reason. Can please the AI check if it has navy superiority before doing such things?

That one has been an issue for quite some time. And probably wont be fixed until the naval revamp.

For now, always manually SR your units to the area you want them in, THEN assign them to an order. Don't give the ai the opportunity to take a cruise.
 

Anthropoid

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And who will come up with two balance set values? Who will balance for MP and who will for SP? What is good for SP balance and isn't for MP? And vice versa? What isn't balanced in MP and what isn't in SP? What new features should be designed with thought for it? SP primarily and then adjusted for MP?

IMHO, a strategy game must have a solid singleplayer mode.As far as I am aware, the vast majority of sales and use derive from singleplayer mode.

Whomever is "coming up with" and "deciding" these things, they need to keep that axiom in mind at all times. NEVER harm your singleplayer for the sake of your multiplayer is essentially what I'm suggesting.

That doesn't mean "sacrifice multiplayer" for the sake of singleplayer.

But if you are going to take a strategy game which is fundamentally a singleplayer design and which appeals to a fundamentally singleplayer market and ADD a multiplayer mode, then it behooves the owner of the IP/its publisher/its developer to do the right thing from a business standpoint: do not harm your cash cow for the sake of your race horse.
 

bzzz

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MEFO! Here is my understanding and my suggestion. Perhaps others can offer feedback...

What Germany Wanted
  1. borrow money from bank
  2. use that money to pay arms contractors to build stuff
  • at this point the arms contractors have money and the bank has bonds that the government must pay back
What Germany Did
  1. create MEFO front company
  2. MEFO issues notes which are redeemable for reichsmarks, and are guaranteed by the government
  3. arms contractors go to MEFO and say "accept this note payable to me for this amount"
  4. MEFO says "sure!" and the arms contractor redeems the accepted note at the bank in exchange for discounted amount of reichsmarks
  • at this point the arms contractor has money and the bank has a note that the government has promised to pay back
Does that sound fair? From the small amount of reading I just did, MEFO bills essentially acted as an extra 12 billion marks in government spending by April 1938. The arms contractors pay employees and material suppliers and in general the amount of money and commerce expands. The effect is a revitalization of the entire economy due to increased demand (I don't know jack squat about Keynesian economics, so don't crucify me for this).

I just don't see how the +20% MIC construction simulates that... Building a factory isn't the point. The factory is just a means to produce other stuff, which is tough without added wealth and resources.

Since the CIC seems to abstract both consumer demand and also something like "the wealth of the country, or its productive capacity" would it make sense to increase both? Rather than increasing PP demand, increase consumer goods demand. But also provide bonus for CIC construction. This way it models the temporary prosperity due to the reverberating debt spending, and also encompasses an increasing level of "overall wealth."

So something like:
+10% MIC construction speed (and the others, radar, AA etc...)
+10% CIC factory construction speed
increase consumer goods demand +1% each rollover
flat PP drain of whatever... 0.25?

I'll try to mod this and see how it goes. I'll assume those numbers are not correct.
 

Meglok

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Would +30% to MIC and Synthetic construction make it feel worthwile?

So something like:
+10% MIC construction speed (and the others, radar, AA etc...)
+10% CIC factory construction speed
increase consumer goods demand +1% each rollover
flat PP drain of whatever... 0.25?

Both of these are worth testing hands off to see what the ai does, and hands on to see what a German player can do.

But the German ai needs to be coded to focus more on constructing refineries than it does now.
 

Kinfet

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My game is crashing when trying to puppet the Dutch East Indies as Germany in a war with just Germany, the Netherlands, and the Dutch East Indies. It doesn't matter whether I'm doing a full annexation or just the puppet, but the act of puppeting causes a CTD.
 

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I ask this as a single player: What specific MP-centric recommendations have been made that suggest this is happening?

MP players: Wah! Germany OP! Hit it with the nerf bat!
1.5.2 rolls out
MP players: Yahh!

I fully admit that is anecdotal, and quite possibly over-generalizing. But we don't have a good mechanism for judging how many people are even playing the game, much less what proportion feel that Germany was OP because . . . "have any of you guys even played the allies in MP!?"

All we have are what a few people express on these boards.
 

richfed

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IMHO, a strategy game must have a solid singleplayer mode.As far as I am aware, the vast majority of sales and use derive from singleplayer mode.

Whomever is "coming up with" and "deciding" these things, they need to keep that axiom in mind at all times. NEVER harm your singleplayer for the sake of your multiplayer is essentially what I'm suggesting.

That doesn't mean "sacrifice multiplayer" for the sake of singleplayer.

But if you are going to take a strategy game which is fundamentally a singleplayer design and which appeals to a fundamentally singleplayer market and ADD a multiplayer mode, then it behooves the owner of the IP/its publisher/its developer to do the right thing from a business standpoint: do not harm your cash cow for the sake of your race horse.

I agree ... I don't begrudge anybody the right to have a good multi-player game, just that I would guess that there is much more playing going on in single-player mode.

Personally, all I want is a game that is a reasonably historical representation of the period AND is fun to play. I love this game and I respect the developers' careful efforts to always make it better. This beta version, specifically the MEFO change, has made it less so, imho. I do like the concept of having the MEFO, but it has seriously impacted - as least as far as I can tell - negatively on playability. It sucks to watch less than 15 factories struggling to make stuff, one excruciating project at a time. But, like all things one has no control over, I will get used to it, and, dammit, learn to like it!! o_O

Thanks for the continued game support!
 

currylambchop

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What if MEFO bills gave -80% civilian to military factory construction cost so you could simulate building up you heavy industry and then switching it to military factories?
 

TomasM15

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upload_2018-3-31_10-9-4.png

upload_2018-3-31_10-9-29.png
 

Redgards

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I do not use the request for the production of foreign equipment because I do not see the point (except that an extremely rare case of a backward country, and then every plant is on the account), and unfortunately ah also does not use, in general, a meaningless feature. here I decided to test what I would be interested in as a player

I think everyone loves 36 year)

Bug:
Scenario 39 years Italy: waging an endless war with Ethiopia although everything is captured and capitulation = 100


Please make the appearance of models of armored vehicles depending on the majority of equipment in the division. Now it is senseless to request production of equipment from an ally, almost expensive, and an upgrade is more expensive than experience. and if the model were changing then there would be a sense for the fan. + would increase the importance of technology capture.
why if the tanks are German all I like in Italy I see the model of Italy)) it's probably
 

lihp

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What if MEFO bills gave -80% civilian to military factory construction cost so you could simulate building up you heavy industry and then switching it to military factories?

You mean: drastically reduce the CIC to MIC conversion costs.

Depending on the amount its an interesting option.
 

G0blyn

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Sorry if it is irrelevant or if it has been mentioned before, but can you please Change the Vojvodina of patch 1.5.2.?
Just add Province 11580 to Croatia, make serbian Banat its own state as in the crudely illustrated Picture below and let the Vojvodina stay what it was before
Ps: idk if the Picture works as i expect it to, but i guess you'll get what i mean just by the discription
idkbrrr.jpg
 

rayanus2010

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"So how do I get this?
1. In steam right click the game in the list of games and pick Properties
2. Go to the Betas tab
3. in the drop-down select 1.5.2_beta (if it doesnt appear you might have to restart steam)
4. Close Properties. Steam should now queue up an update and will display the game in the list as Hearts of Iron IV [1.5.2_beta]
5. if all went well the last bit of the version number in launcher should match the one mentioned in this thread title - which should be the correct checksum.
6. Once we go official you can just remove the beta branch and go back to main by doing this again and selecting NONE."

It says that i need a "beta acces code" , how can i fix that ?
 
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