Steam Workshop::Simple Fixes
note: they also did this with a mod for peace conferences to prevent democracies from annexing everything.
- 6
- 1
Hoi4 bugfixes...but from mod
- Thread starter Vlad123
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
note: they also did this with a mod for peace conferences to prevent democracies from annexing everything.
Or perhaps Paradox doesn't agree those are the correct fixes. While it is easy for people to criticize Paradox, they must have a reason for doing things the way they do. They are a successful company after all.
- 7
- 2
- 1
Just because they are simple fixes doesn't mean they don't take time to verify, implement, test and release (and multiple people involved)
Then you have to weigh that time vs a more complicated issue that has higher impact or the next DLC.
No software product is bug free and developers are always trying to reduce and fix bugs, but they don't have infinite time to work on something, so it's always a trade-off.
I would argue that if the community feels strongly enough and is passionate enough to do bug fixes, then the company and game is probably doing a-ok.
Then you have to weigh that time vs a more complicated issue that has higher impact or the next DLC.
No software product is bug free and developers are always trying to reduce and fix bugs, but they don't have infinite time to work on something, so it's always a trade-off.
I would argue that if the community feels strongly enough and is passionate enough to do bug fixes, then the company and game is probably doing a-ok.
- 4
- 1
- 1
You make a valid point, but what about the bugs that have been reported multiple times by the community and only require editing a single line in a text file to fix. There are many such bugs that have been in the game for months, but I guess they are too time-consuming for people that do it for a living (That is, if anyone bothers to read bug reports).
- 5
- 2
In spirit that may be true, but changing a line in a code that even I could do with some research(or a mod) doesn't require all this time and verification. And if it does it's a poorly managed company/system whatever makes that float.
And to answer - if it's that easy just fix it yourself, yes I could but I shouldn't have to, and all those people who can't and know, shouldn't either when it barely takes any time and has been reported and handed to them on a silver platter.
And to answer - if it's that easy just fix it yourself, yes I could but I shouldn't have to, and all those people who can't and know, shouldn't either when it barely takes any time and has been reported and handed to them on a silver platter.
- 3
So as an example from this mod: making the New Zealand communist preset path pick the Communist Revolutionary instead of the Fascist Demagogue (common/ai_strategy_plans/NZL_alternate_strategy_plan.txt:304). I have trouble believing Paradox "disagrees" with this fix.
You could say that about the behavior of any person or organization. Both inside and outside of gaming there are a lot scummy companies that nonetheless have many customers and turn a profit.
- 3
- 2
We're not talking about bug free. Especially for a game, that would be a ridiculous standard. Here's the bug report forum of another game I play, factorio: https://forums.factorio.com/viewforum.php?f=7
Note how only a few dozen bug reports are in the open state while almost 10,000 bugs have been resolved one way or another. How bugs are actually categorized into different states and resolutions in the first place. The vast majority of reports have staff members actually responding to them.
That's the difference between claiming to care about bugs and actually taking care of them.
- 5
- 2
And I want to remember, what a factorio it is, if I remember correctly an indie! AN INDIE! I think that with PDX it all went down the drain when it became a "Public Company". Because the games first came out better and the bugs were solved, but obviously since shareholders are more important than users ... they just want profits and not build customer loyalty. If PDX loses that hard, super loyal base, it will end up becoming like other companies that make games that are graphically beautiful but empty ...
- 3
- 2
So Paradox is just ignoring reported bugs? That makes no sense. Maybe they have a general policy of not changing certain areas because of the ripple effects it would have. I don't want to believe that they are that irresponsible.
- 2
I strongly disagree with the QoL section of this bugfix mod, but the rest seems valueable.
Just stuff that I assume a very low on the bugfix-priority list, still would like if such fixes could be verified by paradox and implemented.
Just stuff that I assume a very low on the bugfix-priority list, still would like if such fixes could be verified by paradox and implemented.
- 3
I agree. I do not want to believe it either, but my trust is tested.
- 3
I didn't say that. I was just pointing out "they must have reasons" is not much of a defense without judging those actual reasons.
As for your question, I think handling bugs is just an after-thought for the team. If your bug happens to align with a new thing developed for a DLC or it is brought up in a thread a developer took an interest in etc., it may well get picked up. In the case of BftB, there was even a significant push to sort out some things back from DoD.
But from what I can tell there is no systemic effort to deal with bug reports. Fixing bugs is not seen as a primary driver in itself to move the game forward. The developers' claim of reading bug reports silently is really just one step away from declaring PR bankruptcy and admitting they don't.
Think about how much harder you would make your job by doing it this way:
- you can not ask follow up questions to clear up any misunderstandings
- tons of bugs remain unreported because players question if their input has impact
- unaware of whatever internal status tracking you are doing, bug reporters will create duplicates of things you know, not create duplicates of stuff you missed etc.
- faced with unhelpful reports (whether in content or structure) you are forced to ignore them rather than giving the reporter a chance to fix them or telling them to stop
- 4
There's three kinds of problem that HOI4, and the other paradox games, have, and its a problem that exists across the games industry.
HOI4's problems can be split into these three categories imo:
1. Cosmetics issues - flags, symbols, names and pictures of equipment, names & portraits of people. These issues are generally easy to fix, and require people with a lot of knowledge of the particular issue. Usually cosmetic issues don't affect ironman & achievement modes.
2. Script errors - where events, national focuses, and other things don't work correctly, or give incorrect or inconsistent effects. These can be fixed, but often result in the game not counting for ironman and achievements, which is detrimental for some people. These script errors are also easy to fix in most cases, I've done a bit of it myself, it needs people who can study the relevant txt files and modify them.
3. Coding errors - these are things that cannot be solved by modders, at least not publicly, as there is something within the game coding that isn't working, and the hoi4.exe is not permitted to be modified and distributed within a mod.
Now, with a small amount of technical skill, and a larger amount of time, it's possible for modders (i.e. players) to correct type 1 and 2 problems. What they cannot do is correct type 3 problems. That's something that only Paradox can really do.
There seems to be some managerial policy at the company that restricts them from doing more than one or two bugfixing patches for each release for HOI4. Why this is, I do not know. The other games seem to have a different policy in place.
I'll mention an issue that had been in HOI4 since launch, that was only sorted very recently - the random generation of female ace pilots. It didn't work properly - random female aces were generated, but used male pronouns and male portraits. It bugged me. Especially as the USSR has always had the "Women in Aviation" national focus that gave them the rule to generate female aces. It was sorted comparitively recently, after I was able to keep nagging about it, and it turned out to be a straightforward coding fix. The function now works properly. At the time it was fixed, the Paradox person I was discussing it with had mentioned if it was a more complicated error it might have to wait until the Soviet focus tree was reworked. This points again at there being some kind of policy in place that limits what can and can't be done.
Now then, I'll mention another game series that I've played, where the same kinds of problems occur: The Elder Scrolls series of games - Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim - I've played all 3, and all 3 had ongoing issues that the game's makers never got round to addressing.
They all have a lot of type 2 errors in the scripting, and a lot of players get round this using the "Unofficial patch" mods, which correct these issues.
For whatever reason, the developer of the Elder Scrolls games never goes over the script errors to fix them, instead apparently leaving it to the players to correct, with the seeming inevitability of the unofficial patches.
Doesn't seem to hurt sales of the games though.
HOI4's problems can be split into these three categories imo:
1. Cosmetics issues - flags, symbols, names and pictures of equipment, names & portraits of people. These issues are generally easy to fix, and require people with a lot of knowledge of the particular issue. Usually cosmetic issues don't affect ironman & achievement modes.
2. Script errors - where events, national focuses, and other things don't work correctly, or give incorrect or inconsistent effects. These can be fixed, but often result in the game not counting for ironman and achievements, which is detrimental for some people. These script errors are also easy to fix in most cases, I've done a bit of it myself, it needs people who can study the relevant txt files and modify them.
3. Coding errors - these are things that cannot be solved by modders, at least not publicly, as there is something within the game coding that isn't working, and the hoi4.exe is not permitted to be modified and distributed within a mod.
Now, with a small amount of technical skill, and a larger amount of time, it's possible for modders (i.e. players) to correct type 1 and 2 problems. What they cannot do is correct type 3 problems. That's something that only Paradox can really do.
There seems to be some managerial policy at the company that restricts them from doing more than one or two bugfixing patches for each release for HOI4. Why this is, I do not know. The other games seem to have a different policy in place.
I'll mention an issue that had been in HOI4 since launch, that was only sorted very recently - the random generation of female ace pilots. It didn't work properly - random female aces were generated, but used male pronouns and male portraits. It bugged me. Especially as the USSR has always had the "Women in Aviation" national focus that gave them the rule to generate female aces. It was sorted comparitively recently, after I was able to keep nagging about it, and it turned out to be a straightforward coding fix. The function now works properly. At the time it was fixed, the Paradox person I was discussing it with had mentioned if it was a more complicated error it might have to wait until the Soviet focus tree was reworked. This points again at there being some kind of policy in place that limits what can and can't be done.
Now then, I'll mention another game series that I've played, where the same kinds of problems occur: The Elder Scrolls series of games - Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim - I've played all 3, and all 3 had ongoing issues that the game's makers never got round to addressing.
They all have a lot of type 2 errors in the scripting, and a lot of players get round this using the "Unofficial patch" mods, which correct these issues.
For whatever reason, the developer of the Elder Scrolls games never goes over the script errors to fix them, instead apparently leaving it to the players to correct, with the seeming inevitability of the unofficial patches.
Doesn't seem to hurt sales of the games though.
- 2
- 1